What do you believe

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

'A'

[CatholicforChrist]

None of the above, as popesaintpiusx said, there needs to be a clarification on A. The fact that the Authentic Magisterium can err in pastoral decisions must be taken into account.

[MC Just]

A

[Guest superman2000]

When we look in the Bible we find that prayer is directed to God alone. Asking a saint to help and guide or protect is something only God can do. As someone once put it, why go to the branch office when you can go to the president. There is not one example of a Christian addressing prayers to Mary or saints. Mary ROCKS, However, she is not the key. Jesus is the key, knock and it shall be opened unto you

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I answered A, but choice B is a bit misleading. As Catholics we most certainly should follow our own consciences, that is a well informed conscience not influenced by thoughts or motives contrary to Catholic morality and faith. Also, the pope is not infallible on everything - he goes to confession every week - but is infallible on ex cathedra teachings. You can disagree with the pope when he states something like we should cooperate with the UN or that a certain war is unjust. There are times when he is absolutely correct and those times you have to follow him, but for the most part those times are few and far between.

Edited October 15, 2004 by 1337 k4th0l1x0r

[Paladin D]

[quote name='superman2000' date='Oct 15 2004, 02:48 PM'] When we look in the Bible we find that prayer is directed to God alone. Asking a saint to help and guide or protect is something only God can do. As someone once put it, why go to the branch office when you can go to the president. There is not one example of a Christian addressing prayers to Mary or saints. Mary ROCKS, However, she is not the key. Jesus is the key, knock and it shall be opened unto you [/quote]
Praying to a Saint is asking for intercessory. Not only do we ask for others [b]to pray for us[/b], we ask the Saints in heaven to pray for us. By your own argument, there is no real point then in asking others to pray for us.

By the way, welcome to the board! Enjoy your stay.

[CatholicforChrist]

Not only do we ask the Saints to intercede to God for us, we also ask them to grant us things by their own power and authority. This is something that is often neglected when discussing with protestants as a means of making the doctrine of the Communion of Saints more appealing to their erroneous doctrines, but it has been practiced consistently in the Church possibly even more strongly than simply asking for intercession.

[Guest Aluigi]

the power of the saints is soley from God. it is not of their own power.

[ICTHUS]

I put D. Were the Pope, and the Church of Rome, not espousing such damnable heresy, I would be happy to permit the Pope primacy among all the bishops of holy Mother Kirk. However, the Council of Trent declared the Romish heresies irreformable, so that will never happen.

[Brother Adam]

Still "trolling" ICTHUS? Why you haven't been banned yet is beyond me. Don't forget though, you could not accept the Pope. Ever. Your heresy doesn't allow for it. You are your own supreme authority on the faith in the world.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Oct 15 2004, 02:33 PM'] the power of the saints is soley from God.  it is not of their own power. [/quote]
The power of the saints is God's power, but it is also their own. It can best be termed dyoenergetic, because it is God's power (energy) that perfects and elevates the power (energy) of the saints as He works, [i]in[/i], [i]with[/i], and [i]through[/i] them. It is a true synergy between God and the saints, always dependent upon God, but the saints are truly active, and so they are not merely passive instruments of the divine energy.

[Socrates]

[quote name='1337 k4th0l1x0r' date='Oct 15 2004, 02:10 PM'] I answered A, but choice B is a bit misleading. As Catholics we most certainly should follow our own consciences, that is a well informed conscience not influenced by thoughts or motives contrary to Catholic morality and faith. Also, the pope is not infallible on everything - he goes to confession every week - but is infallible on ex cathedra teachings. You can disagree with the pope when he states something like we should cooperate with the UN or that a certain war is unjust. There are times when he is absolutely correct and those times you have to follow him, but for the most part those times are few and far between. [/quote]
I agree with your postion. Choice "B" was intended to represent the liberal "cafeteria Catholic" position.

[ICTHUS]

Yeah, I figured that I post so little here that I might as well be gone.

[QUOTE]Why you haven't been banned yet is beyond me.[/QUOTE]

If I were banned, I would just chalk it up to being persecuted for the Gospel. When I believe something is damnable, I call a spade a spade. Roman Catholics are permitted to do that here according to your beliefs, why may not I do so?

[QUOTE]Don't forget though, you could not accept the Pope. Ever. Your heresy doesn't allow for it. You are your own supreme authority on the faith in the world.[/QUOTE] I do not think you fully understand the Reformed doctrine of the teaching authority of the Church. We believe that the Church has authority to teach the People of God, but we see no need for that authority to be infallible - indeed, we consider it dangerous to do so, lest falsehood be considered the Truth of God.

Indeed I would permit the Pope to have primacy over the Church - primacy, but [b]not infallibility[/quote]. The Pope's declarations would need to be subordinate to Scripture.

[cmotherofpirl]

The office of the Pope preceeds scripture.

[XIX]

Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and [b]the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [/b]

Anything other than Choice A would be a flat out contradiction of the Bible. And just to clarify, the infallible authority of the Chuch only extends as far as faith and morals. Such things as receiving communion in the hand or tongue, those are disciplines, which are very different. Same can be said about mass in general; we didn't have vernacular masses back in the day.