church and gun control

[Amppax]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1312223501' post='2279793']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfuWXRZe9yA"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=BfuWXRZe9yA[/url]

I accidentally too many media.
[/quote]

That's winning, but as i'm limited, i'll have to just do this. +1

[Winchester]

Back at ya!

[arfink]

@CatholicCrusader- You are relentlessly square. I studied St. Thomas a fair amount in college, and it's clear to me that he often ascribes extremely specific meanings to words which are not thought of in even remotely similar ways in modern English. Words like "enjoyment" or "use" or "love." It's a common problem in all philosophy- philosophers just love to nail down words to a certain spot. While it is an unfortunate part of modern English that it generally defies such tactics, it's a problem which you would do well to deal with politely. Otherwise you will look like a troll, even to a fellow philosopher like me. I understand where you're coming from and how it probably makes your skin crawl to hear people misuse the word "love." But it's the reality of modern English, so don't take it personally.

That said: I find guns to be lots of fun. (Are you happy? I didn't use the word enjoy.) And I even think that it's a good idea for fathers of families (and at their discretion, their sons) to have arms for the purpose of doing their #1 job: protecting their families. If you can have some fun practising with a gun or going hunting to hone your skills and obtain tasty eats, so much the better I say.

Lastly, I don't think St. Thomas would be opposed to "fun" in the most generalized sense of the word. The idea that you can have fun (notice again, I'm using "have fun" instead of enjoy, just for you CatholicCrusader) doing something doesn't need to imply an attachment so strong it precludes Heaven or God. I suspect it would be rather cruel of God to make a world with so much fun in it, only to tell us to avoid all forms of fun in order to earn Heaven. I'm fairly sure even CatholicCrusader has some fun when he's not online battling the forces of evil.

[BigJon16]

I once asked my Diocese's vocations director if priests were allowed to own firearms...

[tinytherese]

I thought that this Simpsons clip covers the issue well.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpLd0WQKCY"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xIpLd0WQKCY[/url]

Edited August 1, 2011 by tinytherese

[Papist]

Controlling your gun in church is very important.

[ThePenciledOne]

Um, you don't shoot other people.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1312323797' post='2280479']
Um, you don't shoot other people.


[/quote]

Except in self-defense.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1312430808' post='2281296']

Except in self-defense.
[/quote]

Even then only when you are very hard pressed. But yes.

[Nihil Obstat]

Catechism of the Council of Trent:


If a man kill another in self defence, having used every means consistent with his own safety to avoid the infliction of death, he evidently does not violate this Commandment.


Eminently reasonable, of course. We avoid killing another, but when faced with the unjust aggressor, our life comes first. Every means [i]consistent with his own safety[/i].

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1312438575' post='2281391']
Catechism of the Council of Trent:


If a man kill another in self defence, having used every means consistent with his own safety to avoid the infliction of death, he evidently does not violate this Commandment.


Eminently reasonable, of course. We avoid killing another, but when faced with the unjust aggressor, our life comes first. Every means [i]consistent with his own safety[/i].
[/quote]
With that being said...I believe we should have the right to own firearms.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1312440231' post='2281395']
With that being said...I believe we should have the right to own firearms.
[/quote]
You either have a right or you don't. I think secular governments should [i]recognize[/i] the right to own firearms.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1312441651' post='2281397']
You either have a right or you don't. I think secular governments should [i]recognize[/i] the right to own firearms.
[/quote]
[img]http://static.tumblr.com/ufkaxdx/f1clonqlj/me_gusta_2.png[/img]

[Amppax]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1312470590' post='2281463']
[img]http://static.tumblr.com/ufkaxdx/f1clonqlj/me_gusta_2.png[/img]
[/quote]

Oh Me Gusta, you are more beautiful then I remembered.

[size=1](if you would please imagine this post with light spanish guitar music in the background, and my voice having a slight spanish accent)[/size]

[dairygirl4u2c]

[url="http://spetsnazarmysurplus.com/online_store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=92"]http://spetsnazarmysurplus.com/online_store/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=92[/url]

[4588686]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1099712042' post='409084']
I don't think the Church has any official position on gun control.

This definitely falls outside the realm of faith and morals, so there can be no binding teaching on the subject, only opinions and recommendations.

The Church has always taught that self-defense is just,as well as a right to property. Thus, the right to bear arms does not violate Church teaching.
[/quote]


[i]2316 The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community.[b] Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them.[/b] The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.[/i]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1312323797' post='2280479']
Um, you don't shoot other people.


[/quote]

No, YOU don't shoot other people.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1312852939' post='2283652']


[i]2316 The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community.[b] Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them.[/b] The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.[/i]
[/quote]
Thats from the Catechism?

[Amppax]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1312861094' post='2284420']
Thats from the Catechism?
[/quote]
yep

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1312852939' post='2283652']


[i]2316 The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community.[b] Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them.[/b] The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.[/i]
[/quote]
I think this is referring more to weapons of mass destruction and such than firearms.

It would be hard to argue that private individuals owning personal firearms promotes violence and conflict among nations.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Socrates