Okay, with's this I'm hearing about Ratzinger...

[XIX]

Is there anything to this notion that the 3rd secret hasn't been fully revealed? some claim that Cardinal Ratzinger has admitted that the 3rd secret hasn't been fully revealed. Are the Traditionalists onto something here? Or are they bending the truth to the nth degree?

Personally, I just think that if nothing else, there is no way apostasy could ever dominate Christ's Church. As a Catholic, why would I put much faith into a heresy-riddled Church? What can I possibly have faith in if I can't fall back on the Church? Heck, why would I be a Catholic, if it meant being a part of an apotasized Church? It just doesn't fit as far as I am concerned.

But I'm sure somebody knows something I don't know. I want to know the truth, not just what would be nice. Hence, I start a new thread. Enjoy.

Edited November 11, 2004 by XIX

[StColette]

The only thing that has been said by Cardinal Ratzinger regarding the third secret of Fatima is in the following article :

Ratzinger rejects rumors on secret of Fatima

VATICAN (CWN) -- Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (bio - news) has directly contradicted a recent report regarding the content of the mysterious third secret of Fatima.

In an interview with the Italian publication Gazettino di Venezia, the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith dismissed the speculations of Father Rene Laurentin that in that third secret, the Virgin Mary had predicted a period of dissent from Catholic doctrine, leading to grave divisions in the Church. In remarks broadcast on Italian television, Father Laurentin-- who has gained special prominence through his work on Marian apparitions-- said that Pope John XXIII had chosen to keep the secret from the public in 1960, fearful of causing further intramural divisions.

But Cardinal Ratzinger rejected those ideas, and urged the faithful not to be preoccupied with such "fantasies and fictions." He pointed only a few people have been informed about the third secret of Fatima, and Father Laurentin's name is not on that list.

"Three popes have become acquainted [with the secret]," the cardinal observed, "and none of them has judged it opportune to make it public. They had good reasons for their decision."

In a separate interview with a Portuguese radio station, Cardinal Ratzinger added: "For those who are curious, I can offer assurance: the Virgin is not engaged in sensationalism, nor in feeding fears, or offering apocalyptic visions." The key to the understanding of the message of Fatima, he said, lies in Mary's emphasis on prayer and penance. "She guides men toward her Son," he said; "That is what is essential."

[url="http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=6056"]http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=6056[/url]

The third secret has been revealed by the Holy Father.

Edited November 11, 2004 by StColette

[noncatholicname]

Sounds like a ghost story to me.

[XIX]

By the way, lemme just say I love my Pham.

[StColette]

[quote name='XIX' date='Nov 11 2004, 01:56 AM'] By the way, lemme just say I love my Pham. [/quote]
hehe the pham loves u too

[CatholicCrusader]

The Third Secret has not been revealed yet. And Ratzinger did say the same. Moreover, I think that it is at least fallibly taught that the last Pope will be the Anti-Christ, can someone from Apologetics possibly help me on that? If that is the case, then XIX, your idea that "the Church [read: Pope] becoming an apostate makes it an illogical notion to be Catholic" cannot stand, if I am correct on this point, which, as I said, I would appreciate any help from someone on that.

Edited November 11, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[XIX]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 11 2004, 12:09 PM'] The Third Secret has not been revealed yet. And Ratzinger did say the same. Moreover, I think that it is at least fallibly taught that the last Pope will be the Anti-Christ, can someone from Apologetics possibly help me on that? If that is the case, then XIX, your idea that "the Church [read: Pope] becoming an apostate makes it an illogical notion to be Catholic" cannot stand, if I am correct on this point, which, as I said, I would appreciate any help from someone on that. [/quote]
Yeah, could anybody site a credible source that says that?

EDIT: That sounded sarcastic, it wasn't supposed to be. I'm serious--if somebody could tell me where this comes from, I'd appreciate that..

Edited November 11, 2004 by XIX

[noncatholicname]

[quote name='XIX' date='Nov 11 2004, 12:54 PM'] Yeah, could anybody site a credible source that says that?

EDIT: That sounded sarcastic, it wasn't supposed to be. I'm serious--if somebody could tell me where this comes from, I'd appreciate that.. [/quote]
How about "the sun" or "the weekly world news"? I hear the latest fatima predictions are out for the new year.

[StColette]

I've read about Fatima quite a bit, and I know for certain that the it is not fallibly taught that the last Pope will be the Anti-Christ, however, there is stipulation that the last Pope will lose his faith for a time, but shall regain it.

[StColette]

I got the following from the Vatican site

“J.M.J.

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.

I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

Tuy-3-1-1944”.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...-fatima_en.html[/url]

I think it would be a good idea XIX to read the whole thing

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Nov 11 2004, 01:09 PM'] The Third Secret has not been revealed yet. And Ratzinger did say the same. Moreover, I think that it is at least fallibly taught that the last Pope will be the Anti-Christ, can someone from Apologetics possibly help me on that? If that is the case, then XIX, your idea that "the Church [read: Pope] becoming an apostate makes it an illogical notion to be Catholic" cannot stand, if I am correct on this point, which, as I said, I would appreciate any help from someone on that. [/quote]
No, the Church has never taught that the last pope would be the anti-Christ.

[CatholicforChrist]

[quote name='StColette' date='Nov 11 2004, 01:32 PM'] I got the following from the Vatican site

“J.M.J.

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.

I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.

Tuy-3-1-1944”.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congrega...-fatima_en.html[/url]

I think it would be a good idea XIX to read the whole thing [/quote]
Sister Lucia, the only one left of the Fatima children, has said that the Third Secret has not been revealed and that Russia is not Consecrated to Our Lady. The International Fatima Rosary Crusade, founded and currently headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, has more information, which I have read.

[Guest Aluigi]

no, Sister Lucia said it HAS been fulfilled. back up that she has said it wasn't, because I've seen her quoted as saying it was fulfilled.

[StColette]

[quote name='CatholicforChrist' date='Nov 11 2004, 02:10 PM'] Sister Lucia, the only one left of the Fatima children, has said that the Third Secret has not been revealed and that Russia is not Consecrated to Our Lady. The International Fatima Rosary Crusade, founded and currently headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, has more information, which I have read. [/quote]
May 13, 1982 Pope John Paul II invites the bishops of the world to join him in consecrating the world and with it Russia to the Immaculate Heart. Many do not receive the invitation in time for the Pope's trip to Fatima, where he accomplishes the consecration. Sr. Lucia later says it did not fulfill the conditions.

October 1983 Pope John Paul II, at the Synod of Bishops, renews the 1982 Consecration

March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul II, "united with all the pastors of the Church in a particular bond whereby we constitute a body and a college," consecrates "the whole world, especially the peoples for which by reason of their situation you have particular love and solicitude." [b]Both the Pope and Sr. Lucia initially seemed uncertain that the consecration has been fulfilled, but shortly thereafter Sr. Lucia tells the papal nuncio to Portugal that the Consecration is fulfilled.[/b]

May 13, 1984 One of the largest crowds in Fatima history gathers at the shrine to pray the Rosary for peace.

May 13, 1984 An explosion at the Soviets’ Severomorsk Naval Base destroys two-thirds of all the missiles stockpiled for the Soviets’ Northern Fleet. The blast also destroys workshops needed to maintain the missiles as well as hundreds of scientists and technicians. Western military experts called it the worst naval disaster the Soviet Navy has suffered since WWII.

December 1984 Soviet Defense Minister, mastermind of the invasion plans for Western Europe, suddenly and mysteriously dies.

March 10, 1985 Soviet Chairman Konstantin Chernenko dies

March 11, 1985 Soviet Chairman Mikhail Gorbachev elected

April 26, 1986 Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident

May 12, 1988 An explosion wrecked the only factory that made the rocket motors for the Soviets’ deadly SS 24 long-range missiles, which carry ten nuclear bombs each.

[b]August 29, 1989 Sr. Lucia affirms in correspondence that the consecration "has been accomplished" and that "God will keep His word."[/b]

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/FatimaConsecration.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/FatimaConsecration.htm[/url]

here is the link to the correspondence about the consecration [url="http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm[/url]

Edited November 11, 2004 by StColette

[F.A.]

Ok here is the full story from a Traditionalists point of view (which I fully agree with).

Fatima

Btw this is my first post. Hello everyone.

Edited November 11, 2004 by cmotherofpirl

[StColette]

[quote name='CatholicforChrist' date='Nov 11 2004, 02:10 PM'] The International Fatima Rosary Crusade, founded and currently headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, has more information, which I have read. [/quote]
I've read the stuff by Fr. Nicholas Gruner also, but I also know that there is some concern towards his fidelity.

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=41"]http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=41[/url]

Catholic Apologetics International is also another site to refrain from

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_view.cfm?recnum=1900"]http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/site_...cfm?recnum=1900[/url]

Edited November 11, 2004 by StColette

[F.A.]

StColette,

This is trying to deny the truth. For Russian still has 11,000 nuclear weapons still pointed at the US.

Secondly, Mikhail Gorbachev is pushing for a secular EU (which is happening as we speak). He is one of the "main men" of the EU.

Thirdly. The ceremonies around the Fatima are a desecration. Same as the Assissi Gatherings every year. Having Hindus come and worship our Lady as a goddess is an abonomation.

Fourth. Russia still has the highest abortion rates world wide. For every live birth there are 2.6 abortions.

Fifth. Under Vladamir Putin, Russia is slowly going back to the old days of communism.

Sixth. The escalation of tensions in the Middle East is far from the promised peace.

Seventh. Our Lady tells Father Gobbi (founder of the Marian Movement of Priests) that the consecration has not been done and just like the King of France the Consecration will be done, but at a stage too late.

I could go on and on. But you should see the point. I have been looking at both sides of the debate and the more I read the more I come to the conclusion that the consecration has not been done.


God Bless,
F.A.

Edited November 11, 2004 by F.A.

[StColette]

Believe me if you can give me a site that shows true fidelity to the Church and to the Pope and doesn't twist the words of the Pope or Sr. Lucia around I would be happy to believe you. But seeing as my fidelity is to the Church and the Pope, you have not provided a site that fits those requirements.

God Bless,
Jennie

[F.A.]

StColette,

*Edit* Lets just say that the situation is much more complex than that */edit*

God Bless,
F.A.

Edited November 11, 2004 by F.A.

[F.A.]

Please StColette if you truly want to be objective you should read both sides of the story. Here is what Robert Sungenis has to say about the Catholic Culture website.

Robert Sungenis

God Bless,
F.A.

Edited November 11, 2004 by cmotherofpirl