Is it not True?

[amarkich]

quoniam omnes dii gentium daemonia at vero Dominus caelos fecit
"All the gods of the Gentiles are devils, but the Lord made the heavens."
Psalm XCV

This is quite a touchy topic among many reformist (ecumenical) "Catholics". I have heard some good speakers on the issue, especially Gerry Matatics, but this truth is one that is often ignored, hated, or altogether misrepresented by many so-called "Catholic" reformists, both 'theologians' and speakers alike. I am curious to see what the consensus at Phatmass is.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Well, I think that the pagan gods don't really exist, and therefore aren't demons per se, although demons could have appeared as them. Now one could ask whether they were inspired by demons and to an extent they were, in that demons tempted us away from the truth of God to the falsities of pagan deities. However, many pagan gods had characteristics which were still intrinsically good, such as honor and justice, and many of them were almost proto-Christian. I tend to think that Satan lured people away from belief in God and inspired the worship of false gods, but because humans are built in the image of God, I don't think he could entirely trick us into worshipping purely evil ideals, because we could tell instrinsically that there was something wrong with them. Essentially, I think Satan tricked us from God, and God is trying to use Satan's tricks to switch them around on him and bring good out of them.

As for the psalms, taking into context that they are largely poetic, I find this to be a suitable explanation.

[Socrates]

Some probably are demons (Moloch, Baal, the Aztec gods and others of a bloodthirsty and vile nature). Others are probably for the most part figments of the human imagination (personifications of various forces of nature, human emotions, other abstract qualities, etc.) - Many of the Greek/Roman/Germanic gods would fall under the latter category.

[toledo_jesus]

aside from the displeasing ones, the ones that are pleasing would be more likely. Better to tempt people away, don't you know.

[CatholicCrusader]

What the Psalm says is that all the gods of the Gentiles are devils. What it clearly means is that every god they invented is actuallty a devil. It means when they are worshipping their false gods, they are actually worshipping devils, not just the figment of their imagination (hence they are worshipping evil not nothing).

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
11/19 - Thirty-third Friday

Though it's been about a year since I've seriously studied Latin, I dispute the translation of "daemonia" as "devils". Besides, "daemonia" is a Greek concept that was alive at the time of the writing of this Psalm, so it might be a good idea to look into what a "daemon" is.

In the end, though, idolatry is always an offense against God Most High. We'll leave it to God to judge individual culpability.

[Fool4Christ]

I've never been asked that question before. Very interesting. My opinion, though, is that no, most pagan "gods" are not demons - at least not at first. I think they are usually originally the products of man's natural desire for religion.

[Don John of Austria]

YES! Yes! Yes! Although I think that it is certianly likely that sometimes made up Gods with out any demonic intervention, even those would have soon had a demon attach itself to the worship, the better to lead people astray.At anyrate I have had some experiance with Paganism and unfortunatly some serious experiance with the demonic there is no dobt in my mind that they are the same.

[Good Friday]

[quote name='Don John of Austria']YES! Yes! Yes! Although I think that it is certianly likely that sometimes made up Gods with out any demonic intervention, even those would have soon had a demon attach itself to the worship, the better to lead people astray.At anyrate I have had some experiance with Paganism and unfortunatly some serious experiance with the demonic there is no dobt in my mind that they are the same.[/quote]
What he said.

I'm a convert to the Faith from paganism, and I can attest to the fact that there is some power behind pagan gods. If the power is not God, and it isn't, then the power is clearly demonic. I also think it's silly to say that "daemonia" may not translate to devils -- even if that's true, and even if the Greeks had some other concept of "daemonia," any preternatural being that is not God or an angel is clearly a demon, regardless of what the Greeks thought it was.

Saying that there is no demonic influence behind the occult is just plain ridiculous. The true story upon which [i]The Exorcist[/i] is based was a case of a child using a spirit board and becoming possessed as a result.

So, I agree with Don John -- perhaps the pagans did invent their gods from their own imaginations, but there was a demon waiting in the wings to fill that void without a doubt. This is well supported scripturally and doctrinally. And it does nothing for interreligious dialogue to allow pagans to continue believing they are worshipping anything less than the devil and his fallen angels -- but it could lead to their possession.

[God Conquers]

Yes I believe it to be true.

Especially the New Age conception of "God".

Those "Conversation With God" books are deeply disturbing and INCREDIBLY damaging. There is no question in my mind that that man is being led by Satan, and that Satan is using those books as a means of pulling people away from God and into hedonism and relativism, his favorite vices.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
11/19 - Thirty-third Friday

[quote]Those "Conversation With God" books are deeply disturbing and INCREDIBLY damaging.[/quote]

You don't mean [i]In Conversation with God[/i] by Fernandez, do you?

[cmotherofpirl]

I think he means the fantasies written by our friend Carderro.

[toledo_jesus]

yeah, what is that guy's story...

[Winchester]

Sometimes the gods of the gentiles is also good eatin'

[Dave]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Nov 19 2004, 11:18 AM'] JMJ
11/19 - Thirty-third Friday



You don't mean [i]In Conversation with God[/i] by Fernandez, do you? [/quote]
No, what he means is a book called "Conversations With God." The author's name escapes me. Anyway, it's not the same book as the "In Conversation With God" series.

[p0lar_bear]

If all pagan gods are devils, who was Paul worshiping at the [i]pagan[/i] altar to the unknown god?

















Just a thought...

[Guest Aluigi]

Jesus. It was not a pagan god, it was unknown to the pagans

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='Aluigi' date='Dec 1 2004, 02:40 AM'] Jesus.  It was not a pagan god, it was unknown to the pagans [/quote]
I hope you are kidding...

if you think that when they worship their "unknown [i][b]g[/b][/i]od", that it is Christ, then you are sorely mistaken. ALL the gods of the pagans are devils.

Edited December 1, 2004 by CatholicCrusader

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='CatholicCrusader' date='Dec 1 2004, 12:53 PM'] I hope you are kidding...

if you think that when they worship their "unknown [i][b]g[/b][/i]od", that it is Christ, then you are sorely mistaken. ALL the gods of the pagans are devils. [/quote]
So, Paul worshiped a devil?....

[CatholicCrusader]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='Dec 1 2004, 12:11 PM'] So, Paul worshiped a devil?.... [/quote]
It would follow that he did... why is that so surprising, considering he was persecuting the Church at that time?