This isn't ok.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='BeenaBobba' date='Dec 12 2004, 06:31 AM'] I wonder why celebrities have been so drawn to Scientology.  I mean, I see little appeal in it.  It's good that this "religion" isn't as trendy as it used to be. 

God bless,

Jen [/quote]
Celebrities are drawn to Scientology because they are truly the most insecure people on the face of the planet. Sure there are a few who are not (people like Tom Selleck, Charleton Heston, a host of others for example), but they are not in Scientology. The insecure ones are.

Scientology tells you that you can fix yourself because you're obviously broken. You just have to "get clear". You have to void yourself of all the negative things - all of them. It's very appealing to people with spotty religious education. It's incredibly deceptive to Catholics in particular who often have feelings of unworthiness - which the Scientologists prey upon.

But as far as being "trendy", I believe that actual God is becoming "trendy" again, and since there really is no place for God in Scientology, many celebs are not turning to it.

Also, you have a younger generation coming into it's own in Hollywood and many find all religions, any religions, too confining. It will be interesting to see how things turn out.

In the meantime, pray for those duped and robbed by Scientology.

Edited December 12, 2004 by Kilroy the Ninja

[AaronDavid]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Dec 11 2004, 11:18 PM'] That is disgusting. :angry:

Are you sure that is what they really believe? You think it would wipe the Church scandal off the wires forever. [/quote]
No, the reason it couldn't wipe the Catholic Churche's scandals clean is because the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Apostolic Church. A slight blemish gives us a black eye. These guys, however, are a joke, and most people know that already.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Dec 12 2004, 04:17 PM'] Scientology tells you that you can fix yourself because you're obviously broken. [/quote]
Heh. How close to christianity this is. *L* At least it allows for people to fix themselves, though.

[MagiDragon]

[quote name='AaronDavid' date='Dec 13 2004, 01:01 PM'] No, the reason it couldn't wipe the Catholic Churche's scandals clean is because the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Apostolic Church. A slight blemish gives us a black eye. These guys, however, are a joke, and most people know that already. [/quote]
true.

Welcome to phatmass.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Dec 13 2004, 01:07 PM'] Heh. How close to christianity this is. *L* At least it allows for people to fix themselves, though. [/quote]
Actually I believe Christianity is closer to saying, men are broken and can be fixed with God. Not by themselves alone.

But in Scientology, one can never, really, truly be "fixed" (or "saved"), because we are imperfect humans, and because there is practically an unlimited amount of money to be made in human imperfection.

Now, before you go spouting off about the Catholic Church being all about the money consider this: the Catholic Church has yet to turn anyone away simply because they had nothing to offer Her. Scientologist won't talk to you (past the initial consultation) unless you're enrolled in or are enrolling in their "classes" or doing one of their "sessions" or one of their "cleansings" - all of which require your money.

Yep. L.Ron Hubbard started a dosie of a thing there.

[Donna]

Hypee!
_______________________________________________________

DJ, I've not followed it.

I know of a pedophile whose religion was/is Scientology.

It is really true, that certain sins (esp. if they be patterns of action/thought) are so difficult to get out of, are so dangerous to the soul I reckon it'd take God literally and actively plopping that soul into a totally different realm. Oy, the sacrfices needed to save one soul! Who of us is going to sacrifice for these wretches, whose deeds we hate?

[i][color=green]For the fallen away:

May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable,
Most incomoprehensible and unutterable Name of God
Be always praised, blessed, loved, adored
And glorified:
In heaven, on earth, and in the hells;
And, by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ
In the most Holy Sacrament of the altar.[/i][/color]

[b]Don Bosco, succor us![/b]

And still, there but for the grace of God go I, tho' every fiber screams [i]I would never be this way.[/i] Never be like the Hubbardians or other predators.

Well, Our Lady understands my sorrow. She will pray, and obtain for us courage.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Oik' date='Dec 11 2004, 11:00 PM'] Homosexuality is an illness.

However, this article is extremely fanatical and terrible. [/quote]
To be correct, it is a behavior disorder.

Same sex attraction is developed, it's not passed on biologically or caught like a cold.

The Catholic Medical Association has conducted a indepth study on same sex attraction, you can read it at the below link, it's called Homosexuality and Hope:
[url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url]




God Bless,
ironmonk

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Dec 13 2004, 03:48 PM'] Actually I believe Christianity is closer to saying, men are broken and can be fixed with God. Not by themselves alone.
[/quote]
*L* And that's why I said 'close' and not 'identical'.

[Lavender]

Okay...that is horrible. Those are human beings that they are talking about. "Treatment?" "Disposed of?" How can they say that? Grrr...some church they are. :irate:

[I Choose to Be Holy]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Dec 15 2004, 07:29 PM'] To be correct, it is a behavior disorder.

Same sex attraction is developed, it's not passed on biologically or caught like a cold.

The Catholic Medical Association has conducted a indepth study on same sex attraction, you can read it at the below link, it's called Homosexuality and Hope:
[url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=51[/url]




God Bless,
ironmonk [/quote]
So um...how do u explain those kids that even from childhood don't want to go do the "boy" stuff and want to sit at home and play dolls and such despite all their other siblings doing it? just curious cuz i don't know.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='I Choose to Be Holy' date='Dec 17 2004, 10:41 PM'] So um...how do u explain those kids that even from childhood don't want to go do the "boy" stuff and want to sit at home and play dolls and such despite all their other siblings doing it?  just curious cuz i don't know. [/quote]
It's a disorder, and it can be corrected. The problem is acknowledging that it is a disorder. Alcoholics don't think they are sick. In this permissive culture, gays may not realize that their choice will have a profoundly negative impact on them. Like going to Hell.

Edited December 18, 2004 by toledo_jesus

[I Choose to Be Holy]

yes i agree with your first 3 sentences. but i still am unsure about the rest.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='I Choose to Be Holy' date='Dec 17 2004, 10:59 PM'] yes i agree with your first 3 sentences. but i still am unsure about the rest. [/quote]
well, they won't go to Hell for being gay. Only for acting on it.

[hyperdulia again]

Assuming, like with all objectively mortal sins, that the person committing the act is culpabe for it.

[jasJis]

[quote name='I Choose to Be Holy' date='Dec 17 2004, 09:41 PM'] So um...how do u explain those kids that even from childhood don't want to go do the "boy" stuff and want to sit at home and play dolls and such despite all their other siblings doing it? just curious cuz i don't know. [/quote]
That's just societal sterotyping for the majority. Though there may be some who may be born with genetics programmed with homosexuality, you cannot ignore societal influence. In the 60's and 70's when I was young, you didn't have people running around calling boys 'gay' because they didn't like football or can't fix their car. We've always had men who were painters, sculptors, actors, florists, and chefs who wanted to do that when they were kids. How helpful do you think it is for parents to label their son 'gay' when he wants to cook dinner at the age of 12 instead of palying football? Real men [u]can[/u] eat quiche [b]and make it too[/b].

[cmotherofpirl]

AMEN Jas.

We used to let men have a full range of activities and still be men.

We have also forgotten or re-labelled that period of teenage years when your best buddy was someone of the sex - your best FRIEND. It didn't mean you were homosexual, it meant your were normal.

[Guest Aluigi]

part of the developemental disorder is that they don't have enough acceptance amoung peers of their own sex as a young kid. if they're all playin with dolls and not good at sports, they get rejected by the other boys at a time when they naturally need to have friends who are boys like them (you know, usually the boys are friends with the boys while the girls have cooties). the natural desire for friends who are boys stays there, and right into puberty where then it turns to a sexual desire.

there are many other factors including bad relationships with father, sexual abuse, and some other things. there are none born "genetically programmed" i'm sure of it. however, the developemental disorder really effects the chemical balances in their brain and such so it's also not like something that a person can just choose to leave. they usually need good psychologists and even then only 1/3 actually develop sexual feelings for the opposite sex, and 1/3 simply loose their sexual feelings for the same sex but never develop any for the opposite sex, and 1/3 simply go to attempt to live chaste lives (i'm pretty sure that last 1/3 also includes the people that pretend to develop attraction to the opposite sex and then really screw themselves up)

it depends on how long you've been into the lifestyle, how much homosexual sex you've had, and how deep the wounds that caused it originally are.

[I Choose to Be Holy]

No no no I don't mean that doing the un stereotypical boy things makes a person gay. I was thinking of a specific example where my next door neighbor had 3 boys and raised them all the same, yet from age 5 one of them never wanted to go work outside, and when they went skating he twirled around while the other 2 boys played hockey...and he is now like 25 and openly gay. I was curious what your takes were on stuff like that.

Also, I don't think someone will necessarily go to hell for actively being gay. Noone can judge God's mercy...but if we assume it is a mortal sin, then he or she would only go to hell persay if he was aware that it was a sin and did it anyway.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Dec 18 2004, 10:34 AM'] That's just societal sterotyping for the majority. Though there may be some who may be born with genetics programmed with homosexuality, you cannot ignore societal influence. In the 60's and 70's when I was young, you didn't have people running around calling boys 'gay' because they didn't like football or can't fix their car. We've always had men who were painters, sculptors, actors, florists, and chefs who wanted to do that when they were kids. How helpful do you think it is for parents to label their son 'gay' when he wants to cook dinner at the age of 12 instead of palying football? Real men [u]can[/u] eat quiche [b]and make it too[/b]. [/quote]
Same sex attraction is not genetic. Any who claim it is, are simply wrong. It may not be a choice for some because it is hard to pick what we are attracted to... it is something we develop at a young age, and it is modified throughout our life.

Attraction is a learned response to a physical appearence.

Gender definition at a young age is very important.

I ask people to read and meditate on the article that I posted above.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='I Choose to Be Holy' date='Dec 19 2004, 12:04 AM'] No no no I don't mean that doing the un stereotypical boy things makes a person gay.  I was thinking of a specific example where my next door neighbor had 3 boys and raised them all the same, yet from age 5 one of them never wanted to go work outside, and when they went skating he twirled around while the other 2 boys played hockey...and he is now like 25 and openly gay.  I was curious what your takes were on stuff like that.

Also, I don't think someone will necessarily go to hell for actively being gay.  Noone can judge God's mercy...but if we assume it is a mortal sin, then he or she would only go to hell persay if he was aware that it was a sin and did it anyway. [/quote]
Many factors come into play, not just how they are raised by their parents... peers, idols, etc... Please read the article.

People who are practicing homosexuals, fornicators, idolators, etc... will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6). It's black and white.... provided that they know that they are going against God's Commandments... then they will be judged by what is written on their hearts... their conscience will convict them or vindicate them.

There is a Gehenna (Lake of Fire), and more people will go to Gehenna than will go to Heaven. These are facts written in the bible. The gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, the gate is narrow that leads to life.

[b]Sirach 16:12[/b]
Great as his mercy is his punishment; he judges men, each according to his deeds.

[b]Sirach 5:5[/b]
Of forgiveness be not overconfident, adding sin upon sin.
[b]6 [/b]Say not: "Great is his mercy; my many sins he will forgive."
[b]7 [/b]For mercy and anger alike are with him; upon the wicked alights his wrath.
[b]8 [/b]Delay not your conversion to the LORD, put it not off from day to day;
[b]9 [/b]For suddenly his wrath flames forth; at the time of vengeance, you will be destroyed.


[b]1 Corin. 6:9 [/b]
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals.

[b]1 Tim 1:5 [/b]
The aim of this instruction is love from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
[b]6 [/b]Some people have deviated from these and turned to meaningless talk,
[b]7 [/b]wanting to be teachers of the law, but without understanding either what they are saying or what they assert with such assurance.
[b]8 [/b]We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
[b]9 [/b]with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
[b]10 [/b]the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
[b]11 [/b]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.


[b]St. Matt 16:27[/b] [color=red]For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. [/color]

[b]2 Corin 11:15[/b]
So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

[b]St. John 3:19[/b]
[color=red]And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil. [/color]
[b]20 [/b][color=red]For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed. [/color]
[b]21 [/b][color=red]But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. [/color]


[b]Romans 2:14 [/b]
For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law.
[b]15 [/b]They show that the [b]demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them [/b]


[b]St. Matt 7:13 [/b]
"[color=red]Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. [/color]
[b]14 [/b][color=red]How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few. [/color]




God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited December 19, 2004 by ironmonk