The Ultimate Sacrifice/Cure for Abortion?

[Q the Ninja]

Reread that again, I think that there may be something else in that paragraph that's called heresy...but that may just be me.

[Don John of Austria]

Socrates
[quote]How many "terrorist" saints do you know? (not soldiers, but revolutionary killers)
[/quote]

Well by your definition Sure no problem lets try Joan of Arc she wnet to a revolutionary who was fighting the Legitimate governement ( Henry V defeated the French and they signed the Treaty the English where the legitimate government of what was no longer France but part of the English Empire.) I would say she was responsable for an aweful lot of killing in her little revolution, one she failed to win by the way.


Lets see other Terrorist, well He wasn't a revolutionary but Blessed Charlemagne was certianly a terrorist, if you where a Pagan that is, He cut off 4500 heads atthe "Massacre of Verdun" until the Saxsons woud agree to be baptised. I bet if you where a pagan you where pretty scared.


[quote]The facts about Constantine do not change my point. Constantine was an actual general in an actual war and had a legitimate claim to the throne. He was not just some guy who decided to wage violence against society for a righteous cause.
[/quote]

No the FACTS about Constantine don't change your position, but they shatter your point, less than 10% of the Empire was Christian when God told Constantine to conquer in the sign of the Cross. he had legitimate claim to nothing more than he already held and marched on Rome because Maxentius was throwing down thqe Statues of Him an saying he was a tyrant, Maxentius had yet made no military move on Him, constantine Struck first in What would be concidered very flimsy cause fror a War y us mmoderns I assure you. It was only After the Miraculous Vision that His war takes on legitamacy, only after he became just a guy fighting for a rightous cause.

[Q the Ninja]

I do wish to mention right now, for clarification, not rebuking anything said, but a good outcome doesn't make the acts good.

[cathqat]

[quote name='Q the Ninja' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:45 AM'] Reread that again, I think that there may be something else in that paragraph that's called heresy...but that may just be me. [/quote]
In what paragraph?

[Q the Ninja]

The one he quoted.

[Don John of Austria]

Cathqat -- Pacem in Terris was an encyclical by John the XXIII it was also pastoral in Nature, and not subject to the protection from error that the Syllabus was, Many many things are not so protected that are said in councils ( mainly only those things overty staed as such and those thing followed by an athathama), and only things phrased in very particular ways when stated by the Pope. This does not mean I reject what has been said , as a obediant Catholic I obey the commands of the magisterium, however it does mean that everything that is said must be seen in the Light of what has come before. The way I am interpreting the Syllabus is the same way that Blessed Pius IX who wrote it interpreted it, it is the way it was interpreted for a 100 years after it was written, it is only with the increaseing rejection of Tradition in modern times has anyone challenged this interpretation. The only "right to an education" anyone has is one of religious education, in so far as it is nesseccary for salvation, that is the Decree of the Church, if bishops as individual theologians wish to say otherwise that is between them and Mother Church, but it is not " the teaching of the Church" it is the Teaching of members of the Church-- The differances are subtle but are important. For example asa Catholic I MUST believe that Mary was Immaculately concieved, I MUST believe that Mary was assumed in to Heaven I do not have to believe that Mary has ever had a single apparition( although I do ). Simularly I MUST believe that it is not best a that all children be educated in schools, so the right to education spoken of in these documents must be interpreted to be some form of education which is not Formal education, I would think that it is a referance to the right to learn through Natural progress of ones life-- in this since it would be a Natural Right Coming From the Natural Law-- But it CANNOT mean a "schooling" as that has already been said to definitively NOT BE TRUE. To believe otherwise would be to reject the authorative teaching of the Church.

[quote]But unless we address the root causes of abortion, it will not go away.
[/quote]

The Root causes of abortion? you mean Greed, selfishness, lust, etc. We hae a word for all of those SIN and the Church has been addresssing them for 2000 years. It is funny that before 1973 these reasons didn't ccause 1.5 million abortions a year and there was far less support for unwed mothers back then. No we have become a decadent vile, selfish society where people would rather kill there Children than carry them to term and give them up for adoption ( that would be uncomfortable) or stop the presses Take care of them themselves. Shocking I know but until very modern times that is what the majorty of people did they took care of their own Children. If they couldn't they took them to an orphanage, or a convent or somewhere but they DID NOT KILL THEM. Abortion was always looked at a a the vile dirty murderous thing that it is, and Now we have to give people services to stop them from murdering their Child-- and on top of that you want to claim that it isn't selfishness that leads us to this, you must be joking.

[Dreamweaver]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jan 4 2005, 12:46 AM'] Well by your definition Sure no problem lets try Joan of Arc she wnet to a revolutionary who was fighting the Legitimate governement ( Henry V defeated the French and they signed the Treaty the English where the legitimate government of what was no longer France but part of the English Empire.) I would say she was responsable for an aweful lot of killing in her little revolution, one she failed to win by the way. [/quote]
St. Joan of Arc didn't kill anyone in battle. In her testimonies, she stated that she loved her banner a gazillion times more than her sword. She prefered to lead the revolution, so to speak. But there's still the issue of her soldiers killin' the Brits.

[Don John of Austria]

Her soldiers killed at her order, they killed other Catholics no less.

[Q the Ninja]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jan 4 2005, 01:17 AM'] Cathqat -- Pacem in Terris was an encyclical by John the XXIII it was also pastoral in Nature, and not subject to the protection from error that the Syllabus was, Many many things are not so protected that are said in councils ( mainly only those things overty staed as such and those thing followed by an athathama), and only things phrased in very particular ways when stated by the Pope. This does not mean I reject what has been said , as a obediant Catholic I obey the commands of the magisterium, however it does mean that everything that is said must be seen in the Light of what has come before. The way I am interpreting the Syllabus is the same way that Blessed Pius IX who wrote it interpreted it, it is the way it was interpreted for a 100 years after it was written, it is only with the increaseing rejection of Tradition in modern times has anyone challenged this interpretation. The only "right to an education" anyone has is one of religious education, in so far as it is nesseccary for salvation, that is the Decree of the Church, if bishops as individual theologians wish to say otherwise that is between them and Mother Church, but it is not " the teaching of the Church" it is the Teaching of members of the Church-- The differances are subtle but are important. For example asa Catholic I MUST believe that Mary was Immaculately concieved, I MUST believe that Mary was assumed in to Heaven I do not have to believe that Mary has ever had a single apparition( although I do ). Simularly I MUST believe that it is not best a that all children be educated in schools, so the right to education spoken of in these documents must be interpreted to be some form of education which is not Formal education, I would think that it is a referance to the right to learn through Natural progress of ones life-- in this since it would be a Natural Right Coming From the Natural Law-- But it CANNOT mean a "schooling" as that has already been said to definitively NOT BE TRUE. To believe otherwise would be to reject the authorative teaching of the Church. [/quote]
This is what I was trying to mention earlier...

[Don John of Austria]

More than that her soldiers used the Crossbow which was specificly forbidden as an unlawful weapon by the Church.