curtins Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 [quote]And its not ONE soldier. Youve killed over 100000, and that was a CONSERVATIVE estimate! [/quote] No no no- now see this is where you anti american librals like to try and spin to make your stand point look somewhat legit. the TERRORISTS are killing the inocent iraqis that is the EXTREME ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS. The US military is not about killing inocent people- if one soldier does it thats one soldier who is probably a nut job or something. But the US military is NOT about that- you speak like you side with the real terrorists- the ones who killed 3000 people on 911- but im sure you dont care about 911 or the millions who were affected by it- you make america your bussiness only when its convenient for you. Im sure you dont care about the millions that we have liberated from the tyrants of iraq and afganistan- yes there is violence in iraq- but that is the TERRORISTS FAULT- its simple- no terrorists- no violence. But you dont seem to want to comprehend that idea. Because you are anti american. And I dont want you to praise America- but I think you owe respect to it. And I suppose you want us out of all the tsunami ravaged countries- you want us to take our planes, helicopters, ships, personel, and moeny back. We could do that.
cathqat Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 [url="http://www.godspy.com/issues/Generation-Kill-Devil-Dogs-Iceman-Captain-America-and-the-New-Face-of-American-War-by-Evan-Wright.cfm"][b]Generation Kill[/b] by Evan Wright[/url] [url="http://www.godspy.com/reviews/Into-Iraq-With-Generation-Kill-An-Interview-with-Evan-Wright-by-Angelo-Matera.cfm"][b]Into Iraq With 'Generation Kill': An Interview with Evan Wright[/b] by Angelo Matera[/url] "They will enter Baghdad as liberating heroes only to witness their astonishing victory crumble into chaos. They will face death every day. They will struggle with fear, confusion, questions over war crimes and leaders whose competence they don't trust. Above all, they will kill a lot of people. A few of those deaths the men will no doubt think about and perhaps regret for the rest of their lives." "[Y]ou have all this romance and lore of war, of the soldier, and how they sacrificed. But the real rule of war that you learn... is that the people who suffer the most are civilians. You’re safest if you’re a soldier. I’m haunted by the images of people that I saw killed by my country. There’s no way around that.... Yea, they were killed by my friends, or people who became my friends after I wrote my book, and they’re haunted by it too." "You know what surprises me? How clearly obvious it was to us by April 14th, 15th, that the whole invasion was a disaster, that there was no plan.... I remember thinking at the time, 'My God, this is going to be a disaster,' and thinking, 'I can’t be right. I just have a very small limited view. We could not have invaded this country with so little planning.'" "I think with my group if I met them on the street outside the Marine Corps I would have thought, 'My God, these guys are the salt-of-the-earth, small-town, religious America.' But get with them in the platoon tent, like a day before the invasion, and they’re the most foul-mouthed, atheist bastards on earth. I actually think it’s the opposite of the saying, you know, how there are no atheists in fox holes. I think there’s an opposite force at work, that they’re trained to kill and violate all these taboos. For that moment they’re the most irreverent.... These guys from small town America, what they’re being told to do—they didn’t learn that in Sunday school. They’ve got to throw all that out."
Apotheoun Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 [quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 15 2005, 06:10 PM'] 1 Year for cold-blooded murder? How much someone get in the US for that? Say in TEXAS@ They'd get death. This is a prime example of America's bureacracy and double-standards. [/quote] Neither you nor I are familiar with all the particulars of the case, and so we are not in a position to judge the merits of the punishment.
jasJis Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 [quote name='Phatmasser777' date='Jan 14 2005, 10:53 PM'] [b]U.S. Soldier Sentenced to One Year for Iraq Murder Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:32 AM ET[/b] BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An American soldier was sentenced on Friday to one year in jail for the murder of a severely wounded Iraqi teenager in a Baghdad slum district last year, the U.S. military said. "Staff Sergeant Cardenas Alban was convicted on one count of murder and one count of conspiracy to murder at a court martial at the 1st Cavalry Division courthouse at Camp Liberty today," a military spokesman said. Alban is the second American soldier to be court martialled over the incident. © Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved. ===================================================== And America wants to bring 'American Democracy and Justice' to Iraq? WOW! [/quote] Let's take a breath here and consider the opportunities to be stupid, biases, and purposefully ignorant..... It says this was the second soldier to be convicted of the murder of ONE teenager. [b]What did the 1st soldier do?[/b] (Possibly the actual triggerman?) [b]What did the 2nd soldier actually do?[/b] (In US law, all persons present during the commission of a crime are considered an accomplice and are subject to prosecution. ie: the get-away driver who stayed in the car during a robbery where someone got killed would be convicted of the murder and the robbery) [b]Was the 2nd soldier convicted as an accomplice?[/b] (You are convicted of the same crime, but the circumstances may allow a lessor sentince the the person who actually commited the crime.) [b]How was the murder committed? [/b]The article does not say it was a 'cold-blooded' murder. Was it a failure of the two soldiers to follow military proceedure when stopping a car and shooting a driver who did not stop? Was it a failure to follow proceedure when arresting a suspect and causing the teen's death? [b]ICTHUS and 777 don't know all the facts and are presenting unfounded and biased conclusions.[/b] They are either purposely misleading us to elicit an emotional reaction, or their unadmitted bias and inflammatory nature when posting are misleading us for an emotional reaction. In either case it's safe to conclude: [i][color=green][b]Trolls...[/b][/color][/i]
jasJis Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) [quote][u]QUOTE (Phatmasser777 @ Jan 14 2005, 10:53 PM) [/u] U.S. Soldier Sentenced to One Year for Iraq Murder Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:32 AM ET BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An American soldier was sentenced on Friday to one year in jail for the murder of a severely wounded Iraqi teenager in a Baghdad slum district last year, the U.S. military said. "Staff Sergeant Cardenas Alban was convicted on one count of murder and one count of conspiracy to murder at a court martial at the 1st Cavalry Division courthouse at Camp Liberty today," a military spokesman said. Alban is the second American soldier to be court martialled over the incident. © Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved. ===================================================== And America wants to bring 'American Democracy and Justice' to Iraq? WOW! [/quote] Let's take a breath here and consider the opportunities to be stupid, biases, and purposefully ignorant..... It says this was the second soldier to be convicted of the murder of ONE teenager. What did the 1st soldier do? (Possibly the actual triggerman?) What did the 2nd soldier actually do? (In US law, all persons present during the commission of a crime are considered an accomplice and are subject to prosecution. ie: the get-away driver who stayed in the car during a robbery where someone got killed would be convicted of the murder and the robbery) Was the 2nd soldier convicted as an accomplice? (You are convicted of the same crime, but the circumstances may allow a lessor sentince the the person who actually commited the crime.) How was the murder committed? The article does not say it was a 'cold-blooded' murder. Was it a failure of the two soldiers to follow military proceedure when stopping a car and shooting a driver who did not stop? Was it a failure to follow proceedure when arresting a suspect and causing the teen's death? ICTHUS and 777 don't know all the facts and are presenting unfounded and biased conclusions. They are either purposely misleading us to elicit an emotional reaction, or their unadmitted bias and inflammatory nature when posting are misleading us for an emotional reaction. In either case it's safe to conclude: Trolls... edit to add: ...Did a quick search. Since I don't want to be accused of bias, the following is copied directly from "[b]Aljazeera.net[/b]" [quote]The cases stem from an incident on 18 August when Alban, Horne and Anderson were part of a US army patrol in Baghdad's Sadr City district during a period of intense clashes with fighters loyal to Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. US soldiers saw a group of Iraqi men in a garbage truck who they suspected were placing bombs along a road, and opened fire on them. Several Iraqis were killed. Alban and Horne were accused of fatally shooting an Iraqi man who suffered severe abdominal wounds and burns after the initial barrage of gunfire. US military officials have described the incident as a "mercy killing".[/quote] Other news agencies provided further details. Horne was the one who pulled the trigger. Alban and Anderson both were also tried and convicted. The US soldiers suspected them of placing bombs. 8 people were in the garbage truck at night. The teen was horridly wounded with burns and abdominal wounds and the claim was made it was a mercy killing. Even Aljazeera has a more informative and un-biased story than [i][color=green][font="Geneva"][b]Trolls[/b][/color][/font][/i] Edited January 16, 2005 by jasJis
save ferris 101 Posted January 16, 2005 Posted January 16, 2005 [quote name='curtins' date='Jan 15 2005, 08:44 PM'] No no no- now see this is where you anti american librals like to try and spin to make your stand point look somewhat legit. the TERRORISTS are killing the inocent iraqis that is the EXTREME ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS. The US military is not about killing inocent people- if one soldier does it thats one soldier who is probably a nut job or something. But the US military is NOT about that- you speak like you side with the real terrorists- the ones who killed 3000 people on 911- but im sure you dont care about 911 or the millions who were affected by it- you make america your bussiness only when its convenient for you. Im sure you dont care about the millions that we have liberated from the tyrants of iraq and afganistan- yes there is violence in iraq- but that is the TERRORISTS FAULT- its simple- no terrorists- no violence. But you dont seem to want to comprehend that idea. Because you are anti american. And I dont want you to praise America- but I think you owe respect to it. And I suppose you want us out of all the tsunami ravaged countries- you want us to take our planes, helicopters, ships, personel, and moeny back. We could do that. [/quote] You assume a whole lot. What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? We didn't even go in there because of 9/11, we went in there because of WMD's, which don't exist. And who cares about liberating people? Who made us the liberators of the world, when the world obviously doesn't want us liberating anybody? And no one OWES any country respect. You earn respect. And yeah, if they want us out of the tsunami countries, why not? You act like we're in Iraq to help the Iraqis, or that we do everything to help other people. We went in there to help ourselves! The Iraqi's are just an afterthought.
delta557 Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 They say "severely wounded." Do you know what that means? That means the kid was so beat up that it was horrendous. It's the same thing as when the hospital lists a death as a result of a "massive head injury"...it's a kind way of saying that it was gruesome. The guy was probably just acting on instinct to stop the kids suffering.
delta557 Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='save ferris 101' date='Jan 16 2005, 03:34 PM'] You assume a whole lot. What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? We didn't even go in there because of 9/11, we went in there because of WMD's, which don't exist. And who cares about liberating people? Who made us the liberators of the world, when the world obviously doesn't want us liberating anybody? And no one OWES any country respect. You earn respect. And yeah, if they want us out of the tsunami countries, why not? You act like we're in Iraq to help the Iraqis, or that we do everything to help other people. We went in there to help ourselves! The Iraqi's are just an afterthought. [/quote] WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE???? When we declared war on terrorism, why dont you understand that it is a WAR ON TERROR??? Saddam was a terrorist! WMD's or not, he was doing horrendous things to those people, things that we will never hear about because the government has the kindness to not horrify us with the stuff they did. If this was 1944, would you say that we shouldn't liberate France because they were being terrorized by Germany? This isn't a war on Al Qaeda, this is a war on terrorism in general. Who made us the liberators of the world? We did, because nobody will step up and take responsibility. Bush has balls, that's why the world doesn't like him...they are used to pansies like Clinton being in office, and when Bush decided to stick it to the rest of the world they got all wussy about it. Frankly, America is the last superpower left that has an effective government and enough funding to make a difference in the world. If you think that what America is doing is wrong, you're a beaver dam traitor and you can go stick yourself under the filename "treason."
cathqat Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='delta557' date='Jan 17 2005, 04:58 PM'] If you think that what America is doing is wrong, you're a beaver dam traitor and you can go stick yourself under the filename "treason." [/quote] Would you say the same to all members of the Church who opposed the US going to war in Iraq? Including Pope John Paul II? It is not "treason" to believe that your nation's leaders sometimes make very serious errors. I believe that abortion should be always and everywhere illegal; I am not a "traitor" to my country when I denouce its legalization of abortion. Likewise I do not believe starting a war in Iraq was just; I am not a "traitor" to oppose this decision by my government. In fact, believing the war to be unjust, saying nothing against it would have been the graver betrayal of my nation. There are Christians who believe the war was unjust as well as Christians who believe it was just. We will neither discover the truth nor settle our differences by calling each other names.
delta557 Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 If you don't support the war against Iraq, you are fighting for the same cause as Saddam.
Apotheoun Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 17 2005, 03:10 PM'] Would you say the same to all members of the Church who opposed the US going to war in Iraq? Including Pope John Paul II?[/quote] Technically speaking, it is impossible for the Pope to commit treason against the United States, because he isn't an American citizen. God bless, Todd
cathqat Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jan 17 2005, 05:24 PM'] Technically speaking, it is impossible for the Pope to commit treason against the United States, because he isn't an American citizen. [/quote] Yes, I know he is not an American, but the question still raises a valid point: Should he be called by similar slanderous names? Would it be legitimate to say Pope John Paul II is "fighting for the same cause as Saddam," as delta claims?
cathqat Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 And so, returning to delta557: Do you really believe that Pope John Paul II is "fighting for the same cause as Saddam"?
delta557 Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 [quote name='cathqat' date='Jan 17 2005, 06:08 PM'] And so, returning to delta557: Do you really believe that Pope John Paul II is "fighting for the same cause as Saddam"? [/quote] If the Pope is saying that America has no right to be in Iraq and that what we are doing is wrong, then yes.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 Good people can disagree with the war in Iraq. This does not mean they side with terrorists, so don't even go there.
delta557 Posted January 17, 2005 Posted January 17, 2005 It's just like the President said...you're either with us or against us.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 Catholics understand that in many areas, there are grey places. In essential things - unity, in all things charity.
cathqat Posted January 18, 2005 Posted January 18, 2005 [quote name='delta557' date='Jan 17 2005, 06:51 PM'] It's just like the President said...you're either with us or against us. [/quote] Well, if I die tomorrow, I think I'd rather be with the Pope than the President any day!
MichaelFilo Posted January 19, 2005 Posted January 19, 2005 Teenagers are trained to fight there. Under Saddam, The military was mandatory. My family has been sent to the front lines of Iraqi wars for no reason, wanting nothing to do with it. Iraq has a track record of starting them young, and I can only agree that work towards a vocation should start at an early age. Sadly this teen probably had little choice or never saw another oppertunity except for his supposed eternal reward in militant Islam. God bless, Mikey
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now