School Of Community

[JuCa]

thanks for the clarification...that was bugging me

[Katt1227]

It is the exceptionality with which the figure of Christ appears that makes it easy to recognize Him. We must imagine ourselves, as I said before, we must submerge ourselves in these events. If we try to judge them, if we want to judge them, I don’t say understand them, but judge them substantially, as true or false, it is the sincerity of your identification with them that makes the true true and not false, and does not make your heart doubt the truth. It is easy to recognize it as a divine ontology because it is exceptional: it corresponds to the heart, and you stay with it and never want to leave—which is the sign of a correspondence with the heart. One would never leave, and would follow Him for one’s whole life. And in fact they followed Him for the three more years that He lived.

Okay, so I'm going to back up to Recognizing Christ. It's the article Blazer started us out reading at the beginning of November. I'm currently rereading it with the newly formed CLU community here in Lexington and I wanted to ask some of your thoughts on something that was brought up in our discussion last week.

We struggled with this paragraph (found towards the end of the article).

The idea that it is easy to recognize Christ and follow him, simply because He is exceptional. In my own experiences, the fact that Christ came to live with us, that He was both fully God and fully human is so extraodinary, so exceptional, so amazing that is is easy to follow Him. There is no doubt in my heart, that Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of my desires. He is ultimate truth, beauty and goodness in one man, one God-man. But does this make it easy to follow Him?? This is where the discussion began. In our world, in our society, it is not easy to follow Christ (and the church's) teachings. We are constantly bombarded with temptations and times of doubt and struggles. But can we still follow Christ through these struggles, through the temptation?? And is it that we recognize, that we follow that is easy?? I'm not sure.

One of my friends pointed out that even to those who walked with Christ, they failed, they were broken, sinful people. Peter, the rock on which our church is formed, denied Christ three times on the morning of his cruxifiction. But can we not continue to follow, even in our sinfulness, our brokenness. This is what makes the human condition so beautiful I think. We are broken, sinful people, yet God himself came among us as human to lift us out of our brokenness.

Okay, so this is a bunch of randomness and not a clear path of thought, but I thought I would share and ask you to comment accordingly. Just something to talk about. I guess the question I'm wanting to ask is, in your experience, is it easy to follow Christ??

[hyperdulia again]

i wanna have something to contribute to this, but basically i'm a really cute, really dumb blonde and it's 4am here.

*drinks coffee*

[DesiringMore]

We have CLU tonight...so, afterwards, i'm sure i'll have some questions and things to share:)

[BLAZEr]

If we try to judge them, if we want to judge them, I don’t say understand them, but judge them substantially, as true or false, it is the sincerity of your identification with them that makes the true true and not false, and does not make your heart doubt the truth.

Ok, I have something on this. Tonigh, our parish has a meeting of the parish council. These people have been doing everything within their power to tear down the priest. It is not their role to tear down the priest, but to support him in his ministry. But here, this parish council is angry for various reasons. They don't like that he moved the choir. They don't like that he is spending money to beautify the interior of the Church. They don't like that he doesn't ask their permission to do things. And so they tear him down. The seek to impose on his freedom "their way" of doing things. They do not have serious points of concern other than it is not "their way."

So, I'm watching all of this and I'm angry. I hate that they treat this good and holy priest like garbage because he is doing things in another way, not a wrong way, just a way different from theirs. And I am looking at the hate and the anger and the attacks they are making and plotting and I ask myself "Where is Christ in the Church?" And instantly I remember the good things that happen in the parish. Instantly I remember the DRE who is good and holy and loves the children. Instantly I remember the Choir Director who spends long hours studying and listening to sacred music to improve our liturgy. Instantly I remember the faces of my teenagers who look at me and say "How is Christ relevant to me?" Instantly I think about CL and the love and generosity and friendship I encounter there.

In the midst of an angry and hateful display my heart remembers the places where I encountered Christ and my heart says "No, Christ is in this Church. He is disfigured in this room, but even here he can be present again. Seek to make him present."

And so I spend a few minutes after the meeting talking with a father about his young son. We talk about the challenges of little boys growing up and the demands of family life. And I invite him, to join me in reading Fr. Giussani's book. For him and his wife to get together with me and share in the Christian life. Maybe at Parish Council, like Nietzschze says, "God is Dead," but the Parish Council is not all of my experience of this life. So I seek to build friendships. I seek to make Christ a presence in this angry parish that does not know what it means to be the Catholic Church.

And all of a sudden, I realize . . . Christ is present! I am Christ. Ok, so not actually Christ, but I am the Christian presence. I have to be the link from today all the way back to Bethlehem in that stable. And all of a sudden I realise, "Why the Church?" Because the church is the tangible Christ. The Church is the only way that Christ lives in this world.

So I decided that my experience tonight with the council was false. That is not an authentic experience of Christ. And I do not deny all of the ways Christ has been present to me before, I just seek to make him present again.

[hyperdulia again]

How does one go about recognizing Christ during one's daily life?

[BLAZEr]

Ok, Hyper, I guess I put the ball back in your court. When has Christ ever been present to you in your life?

[sista2b]

how do you "encounter" Christ, we talked bout this a lot a while back in our school of community, it was when we were reading Recognizing Christ.

[hyperdulia again]

This is so weird I asked my question because I didn't have any idea how to recognize Christ over the course of my daily life, but then when you asked me that all of these things just started flooding my mind...

I remember seeing Christ in my grandmother, my mother's mother, when she was going through her last illness, she was so sick and going through so much pain, but she didn't ask God to heal her of her illness she asked Him to protect her family and to comfort us, because of the pain we felt when she was sick and of the pain she knew we would feel when she died. She never thought about what was good for her, what she wanted/needed, but only about what was good for her family or other people she loved and cared about. she fought to get her maid's terminally daughter admitted to the hospital in our town, during the middle of 1950's segregation. She and my grandfather lost dozens of friends because of that and even got their house burned down.

Idunno where I'm going with this...sorry for my incoherence...i'm crying..yes boys do that too.

[hyperdulia again]

This is so weird I asked my question because I didn't have any idea how to recognize Christ over the course of my daily life, but then when you asked me that all of these things just started flooding my mind...

I remember seeing Christ in my grandmother, my mother's mother, when she was going through her last illness, she was so sick and going through so much pain, but she didn't ask God to heal her of her illness she asked Him to protect her family and to comfort us, because of the pain we felt when she was sick and of the pain she knew we would feel when she died. She never thought about what was good for her, what she wanted/needed, but only about what was good for her family or other people she loved and cared about. she fought to get her maid's terminally daughter admitted to the hospital in our town, during the middle of 1950's segregation. She and my grandfather lost dozens of friends because of that and even got their house burned down.

Idunno where I'm going with this...sorry for my incoherence...i'm crying..yes boys do that too.

[BLAZEr]

lol, Hyper, I'm a boy, and I cry all the time.

But this story of your Grandmother, it's amesome. Because what an amazing way that Christ was made concrete for you, in this woman who loved you, and obviously loved others very much.

And I guess I would say, that when you say to yourself (if you ever say this) "Christ can't be real, cuz I don't know any real Christians." then the answer is to think of your grandmother. To think of this woman, who's life you cannot deny, and who's Christian love you cannot deny, and think "Oh, yes, there is a Christian, there must be more of these somewhere."

[Katt1227]

Great Question, Hyper. How do you recognize Christ in your daily life?

Well, for me I recognize Him in all kinds of ways. Sometimes it's in the beautiful nature (if you've ever been in Kentucky in the fall you know there has to be an amesome creator who made the beautiful leaves, the sloping hills, the winding rivers).

Most of the time I recognize Christ in other people. My friends, my family, strangers who smile while walking through campus. Even those people who are sinful and broken, with their struggles, Christ is present in them too!! I recognize Him in the people I deal with on a regular basis. When you get random phone calls from friends, random emails or IMs from those you love (and who love you) that's Christ reaching out to you in love.

I know that He is present in all that is around me, but many times I am blinded by my problems that I fail to see Him. So, I beg, every morning, to see Him, to recognize Him each day in something, Someone. I pray for the openness for Him to encounter me in my life. I struggle with this often, but the more I beg, the more I recognize Him.

[DesiringMore]

I know that He is present in all that is around me, but many times I am blinded by my problems that I fail to see Him. So, I beg, every morning, to see Him, to recognize Him each day in something, Someone. I pray for the openness for Him to encounter me in my life. I struggle with this often, but the more I beg, the more I recognize Him.

Amen Katt :D

[SallyCat]

When you strive to see Christ in people and find difficulty doing so, they just aren't the friendliest people, are there things to do, besides tring to let them see Christ through you, to ask them what's up's. I guess I am asking is there a polite way to ask them why they are decietful(sp) or ummm witchy?

[DesiringMore]

When you strive to see Christ in people and find difficulty doing so, they just aren't the friendliest people, are there things to do, besides tring to let them see Christ through you, to ask them what's up's. I guess I am asking is there a polite way to ask them why they are decietful(sp) or ummm witchy?

Be a witness through your words and actions...Be a Presence to those around you especially those who don't seem to love the way Christ would have you, those who don't show charity, those who you can't see Christ in....and PRAY,PRAY,PRAY for them!!

[hyperdulia again]

I saw Christ today. He's a rather small and roundish fellow.

[DesiringMore]

:D

[DesiringMore]

okay, i have a question about the NOTHINGNESS that Fr. Guisanni talks about in his books...especially the Origin....i'm not totally 100% sure that i understand the definition...but sallycat asked about it in another thread...i said i would have to ask you to explain and ask my fellow CLers on Monday night to explain...i am still trying to understand as well such terms ;)

[Katt1227]

The nothingness that Guissani talks about it is a life that becomes routine. It's when we stop questioning, we stop experiencing, we stop living. This is nothingness. It's the lack of searching for what we desire, it's the lack of desiring. It's when we stop begging for Him.

Sallycat-

From my experience, NO there is nothing you can really do with people who you fail to recognize Christ in. First off, it's not really their problem. It's yours. They may be mean, rude, whatever, that is why you can't recognize presence in them. The only thing I know to do, is beg, pray for them. Beg to see Him in them despite their faults, their shortcomings. And then when you beg, wait. Wait for their freedom. Wait for them to acknowledge that they are Presence and to act like it. You beg and you wait. That's all you can do. That and Pray.

[DesiringMore]

Good call on the nothingness...at 4am i could not exactly think right and i could not come up with a good definition... i look forward to meeting you tonight Katt....