AndytheConqueror Posted January 27, 2005 Posted January 27, 2005 In the Hail Holy Queen prayer, we refer to the Virgin Mary as "our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope". What is meant when we pray this? To me, it seems like Christ himself should be our Life, Sweetness and Hope. I always wonder whenever I say the prayer.
MichaelFilo Posted January 27, 2005 Posted January 27, 2005 She is our Life, in the sense that she brought forth Life (Jesus) into this world. Without her, we have no Life since Life would not have entered into this world. Our sweetness, she is the sweetness of humanity. She was a mere human, but is the sugar of all humanity. She is the best example of humanity. As such she is the sweetness ( as you well know sweetness is a good thing ) of humanity. Our hope, she is indeed our hope for both reasons. For the first, she brought forth Life into this world, and then was assumed into Heaven. Because of her Life was brought back to humanity so we could hope, and she was accepted into Heaven, giving us hope that humanity may receive Salvation. God bless, Mikey
Brother Adam Posted January 27, 2005 Posted January 27, 2005 Yea, don't let those Protestant "arguments" get to you. There is always a sound explaination behind any of their misunderstandings. This was a letter sent to me on my journey to Catholicism: Hail Holy Queen Hail- a greeting for one who you have greatly desired to speak to. the angel spoke this way too Luke 1:28 when speaking to Mary. Queen- in the davidic kingdom, the mother of the king was always seen as the queen. the roll of this queen is seen in 1 Kings 2:17, 20; 1 Kings 2:18; 1 Kings 2:19; 1 Kings 15:13; 2 Chron. 22:10; Neh. 2:6 Holy- the ark of the covenant was considered holy because it housed the word of God at one point, so too did Mary house the WORD of God. in 2 Chron. 8:11 it shows that even the places the ark has been to become holy just because the ark has been there, meaning the ark is holy. also, the power of the most high overshadowed her Luke 1:35 she is filled with grace and the Lord is with herLuke 1:28 Mother of Mercy Jesus Christ is mercy. Mary is Jesus' mother, the mother of the Lord Luke 1:43 so Mary is MERCY's mother. <repeat to emphasize something>Mother of: mercy,Our Life, our sweetness, and our hope you see, it's Mother of the following four things: Mercy, Our Life, Our Sweetness, and Our Hope. and in a special way, too then, she herself is our life, sweetness, and hope, she's those things by ASSOSIATION. because she raised mercy itself, we owe some gratitude to her for that very mercy. because she raised Him who is Our Life, because she brought Him into the world, we owe gratitude to her and in some way she takes on that attribute simply by her mothering Him who is our life, etc etc with the other two. Mary gave us hope by accepting Jesus Christ into her womb. Luke 1:38 all of these things combined seem to indicate holiness. to thee do we cry the ppl in a Davidic kingdom see the mother of the king, the Gebirah or Queen Mother, as one who intercedes on their behalf 1 Kings 2:18 poor banished children of eve we were all born not into immortality in paradise, but because of eve's acceptence of the serpent and Adam's acceptance of his wife we were BANISHED from paradise. Genesis 3:17 to thee do we lift up our sighs again: the ppl in a Davidic kingdom see the mother of the king, the Gebirah or Queen Mother, as one who intercedes on their behalf 1 Kings 2:18 mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.psalms do this kinda stuff all the time, and lamentations, and yeah, most of the OT, mourning over sinfulness, and over exile (as we were exiled from the Garden of eden). this is the whole point of prayer and fasting, it is a very good spiritual thing to mourn and weap over what offenses we cause to God. turn then, most gracious advocate again, the Davidic kingdom, the queen mother was always pleading to the king on behalf of her ppl. 1 Kings 2:18 i encourage you to read Scott Hahn's book, ironically enough, HAIL HOLY QUEEN thine eyes of mercy towards us this again has to do with the "Gebirah" again, the queen mother, so see again: 1 Kings 2:17, 20; 1 Kings 2:18; 1 Kings 2:19; 1 Kings 15:13; 2 Chron. 22:10; Neh. 2:6 and after this our exile, we have been banished, exiled, out of paradise and God's presenceGenesis 3:17, by the woman and her seed shall we fight the one who banished us Genesis 3:16 by Jesus, the seed of the woman, we have the power to again be sons of God John 1:12 baptism saves us from our banishment 1 Peter 3:21 through the resurection, thus we may one day again enter the presence of God, those who do the will of the Heavenly Father will one day enter the presence of God again, paradise, HEAVEN Matthew 7:21 show unto us the blessed fruit of they womb, the angel refers to Jesus as the blessed fruit of Mary's womb Luke 1:28 and Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit Luke 1:41 also refers to Him as such Luke 1:42 Jesus hehe, you cannot disagree with invoking His Holy Name in prayer Oh clement, oh loving, oh sweet Virgin Mary Virgin Mary- She pledged a life of virginity all her life, which was the only reason she was so shocked and didn't understand how she could bear a child without 'knowing man' Luke 1:34 it's not she hadn't yet known man, but she DOESN'T know man, that means past present and future. clement- loving- one who is filled with grace and most blessed of all women Luke 1:28 will be called blessed by every generation Luke 1:48 who heard the word of God and kept it as a model for all Luke 11:28 would of COURSE be loving, she is shown to be one of the greates of Jesus' disciples, she spent 30 years with Him hearing His message, so she must have gotten this message of love more than anyone. clement and sweet- same verses, blessed and grace-filled would of course produce a very sweet woman who is good and merciful, she spent thirty years with the one who is source of all mercy, don't you think a lil of His goodness, His sweetness, His love, at least rubbed off? she's in heaven, and those that stand before the Father are perfected Matthew 5:48 Pray for us oh holy mother of God pray for us- intercession of the mother of the king again 1 Kings 2:17, 20; 1 Kings 2:18; 1 Kings 2:19; 1 Kings 15:13; 2 Chron. 22:10; Neh. 2:6 holy- 2 Chron. 8:11 Luke 1:28 Luke 1:35 mother of God- Luke 1:43 that we may be found worthy of the promises of Christ first that we are unworthy servants Luke 17:10 then that we can be made worthy through Christ "by His wounds we are healed" Isaiah 53:5 He promised to heal us and to give us a light yoke Matthew 11:30 and He promised also that we would be persecuted Matthew 24:9 but that is a blessing Matthew 5:12 he gave the promise of eternal life John 3:16 if we do the will of His father Matthew 5:48; Matthew 7:21 anyway, i figured since it's a scary new thing, i should walk through step by step with you with the scriptures. peace be with you on your journey, follow God's will. Pax et Amorque Christi
Archangel Posted January 27, 2005 Posted January 27, 2005 Nice post, Brother Adam. "The Glories of Mary" by St. Alphonsus de Liguori is also a great explanation of the "Hail Holy Queen." [url="http://www.catholictradition.org/glories.htm"]http://www.catholictradition.org/glories.htm[/url]
AndytheConqueror Posted January 28, 2005 Author Posted January 28, 2005 Thanks, that answers a bunch of questions.
jezic Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 that was a really good question. I never thought of it that way.
Catalyst Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 (edited) i dunno about all that jazz Bro Adam. Jesus said "I am the only way, the truth, the life. No one Gets to the Father but by me". I dunno about all of you, but I see a serious lack in the use Mary's name here. Mother of Mercy....unhhhhh yeah man. Jesus was mercy, His sacrifce was for our reconciliation with God, therefor for our mercy because we didn't deserve it. Its not that hard to understand if you meditate on the bible. She gave birth to Him. Its like you stop short of sayin mary blew breath into us. Watch the idolatry. Anything, weather its tv, the lustin of the opposite sex, shoes, or Mary( praying to her for forgiveness other than going to God) is idolatry. Edited January 28, 2005 by Catalyst
Archangel Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 Here's another article I found explaining the Hail Holy Queen: [url="http://www.padrimariani.org/conf_momercyI.html"]http://www.padrimariani.org/conf_momercyI.html[/url]
Brother Adam Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 [quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 28 2005, 12:24 AM'] i dunno about all that jazz Bro Adam. Jesus said "I am the only way, the truth, the life. No one Gets to the Father but by me". I dunno about all of you, but I see a serious lack in the use Mary's name here. Mother of Mercy....unhhhhh yeah man. Jesus was mercy, His sacrifce was for our reconciliation with God, therefor for our mercy because we didn't deserve it. Its not that hard to understand if you meditate on the bible. She gave birth to Him. Its like you stop short of sayin mary blew breath into us. Watch the idolatry. Anything, weather its tv, the lustin of the opposite sex, shoes, or Mary( praying to her for forgiveness other than going to God) is idolatry. [/quote] Catylist, Invincible ignorance is one thing, but your willful ignorance cannot be forgiven. Christ does not take lightly his bride being attacked. Think about it. If someone attacked not only your mother but your wife as well what would you do? Idolatry is the intention to worship something or someone as a diety. Catholics have never and will never worship Mary. The angel called Mary "Blessed among woman" and "full of Grace". Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. There is no other way to the Father except through the Son of God, the Lamb, the Savior. It is only through Jesus that we are saved. In the Old Testament why was it critical to follow the way of old in the dessert? Because if you didn't follow the way you would die in the dessert. If you continue to trust only in yourself and not in authority that Christ gave the Church in the Bible then you will never have the fullness of truth. You will have bits and pieces of truth, but lack the true joy of the fullness of truth. You want scripture friend, Catholics dwell on scripture throughout the entire day in the Liturgy of the Hours. We hear the Gospel of our Savior Jesus proclaimed daily in mass, we honor Mary as God honors Mary. You want scripture friend? Yes, dwell on this scripture: "The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth"
Brother Adam Posted January 28, 2005 Posted January 28, 2005 The Catholic Church: Fides Et Ratio (Faith And Reason) The Enlightenment: Sole Ratio (Reason Alone without Faith) The Reformation: Sole Fides (Faith Alone without Reason) Dwell on scripture the whole day long friend. Read the Bible through at least once a year. Keep searching.
Catalyst Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) look at this!! A man telling me Ive committed an unfogivable sin? His bride? the church is His bride and his church are those who love Him and recieved what He did on Calvary. Not some organization as the world sees it. No mediator between God and man...no one deserves prayers other GOD....Faith alone with out reason??? Reconciliation is the reason...walking hand and hand with God the reason. Love the reason......what does full of grace mean to you..i'm still waiting to hear a catholic phatmass opinion of the word grace by the way, what are your trying to say about the bible? Keep searching? Till the day I die bruh, Gods wisdom is infinite and I'll forever seek Him Edited January 31, 2005 by Catalyst
Thy Geekdom Come Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 30 2005, 09:57 PM'] look at this!! A man telling me Ive committed an unfogivable sin? His bride? the church is His bride and his church are those who love Him and recieved what He did on Calvary. Not some organization as the world sees it. No mediator between God and man...no one deserves prayers other GOD....Faith alone with out reason??? Reconciliation is the reason...walking hand and hand with God the reason. Love the reason......what does full of grace mean to you..i'm still waiting to hear a catholic phatmass opinion of the word grace by the way, what are your trying to say about the bible? Keep searching? Till the day I die bruh, Gods wisdom is infinite and I'll forever seek Him [/quote] 1. The Catholic Church receives the once for all sacrifice of Christ on calvary every minute of everyday. 2. Our prayers are not directed at Mary, they are directed at God, through Mary. 3. You are using the word [i]reason[/i] under a separate connotation. Bro. Adam was refering to the process of intellectual reasoning, not the noun [i]reason[/i] in its meaning as a [i]cause[/i]. 4. The word grace? Go see StColette's thread on the meaning of the word kecharitomene...I know Koine Greek...the tract is correct. [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=19366&view=findpost&p=338233"]Caire, Kecharitomene[/url] 5. Yes, God's wisdom is infinite...that's why it can't all be contained in the Bible and it's why through Tradition, we see a lot more of it in addition to the Scriptures.
Rich* Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote]2. Our prayers are not directed at Mary, they are directed at God, through Mary[/quote] but why do they need to be directed through mary at all? surely one of the greatest things about what Christ did for us is allowing us to come before the father ourselves with clean hands. God Bless, Rich
spathariossa Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='Rich*' date='Jan 31 2005, 01:36 PM'] but why do they need to be directed through mary at all? surely one of the greatest things about what Christ did for us is allowing us to come before the father ourselves with clean hands. God Bless, Rich [/quote] I think a better question is this: Why do protestants ignore and insult the Mother of God?
StColette Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='Rich*' date='Jan 31 2005, 01:36 PM'] surely one of the greatest things about what Christ did for us is allowing us to come before the father ourselves with clean hands. God Bless, Rich [/quote] You're right Rich, we are able to go before God ourselves, but just as we ask our family , friends, and parish members to pray for us and our intentions, we also ask Mary to pray for us and our intentions. We don't always come before God with clean hands, each of us is subject to sin, and when we have sin upon our soul we are not completely clean, thus our prayers are not as powerful as those who are in Heaven with God. For those in Heaven are completely pure, because we know that nothing unclean shall enter into Heaven. God Bless, Jennie
Rich* Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) [quote name='spathariossa' date='Jan 31 2005, 01:48 PM'] I think a better question is this: Why do protestants ignore and insult the Mother of God? [/quote] Protestants do not ignore and insult mary but we don't place her on a similar level with God - surely that is insulting God! she was human just as we are human, yes she was probably good in human terms but in Gods terms NO-ONE is good. God Bless, Rich (lol I just got a picture of all these saints up in heaven trying to praise God and having to keep stopping to read these prayer request being brought up from earth ) Edited January 31, 2005 by Rich*
Brother Adam Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 (edited) Well Rich, first welcome to phatmass. It is good to see another Protestant face among us. Only a few years ago it was "Brother Adam the Protestant" making all of the same arguments. Glad to have you here. You don't place Mary on a similar level with God. That is good to know. If anyone did I would be really worried. Catholics certianly condemn placing Mary in a divine light. That is the sin of idolatry. Mary is "full of grace" and all generations "shall call me blessed", or do you deny the teaching of Scripture? She was indeed human, and the fullest embodiment of faith. She was saved through her Son Jesus Christ before any other human being was, at the moment of conception. She a the creature, the created, and she glorifies her Creator. Btw, time does not operate in heaven. It is an invention of man. There is no such thing as time, so it is quite probable the Saints are praying for those on earth as the book of Revelation tells us. Without the grace of God, Mary of course could have not been saved, nor could any of us. But what the Bible teaches about Mary is undeniable, especially if you hold it to be the inspired Word of God. If you have never read "Hail, Holy Queen" by Dr. Scott Hahn I suggest it as a good starting point to the bibilical exegesis on Mary, Mother of God. It is very short and easy to read. -Adam Edited January 31, 2005 by Brother Adam
StColette Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='Rich*' date='Jan 31 2005, 03:14 PM'] but in God's terms NO-ONE is good. [/quote] Mk:10: 17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, a certain man, running up and kneeling before him, asked him: Good Master, what shall I do that I may receive life everlasting? 18 And Jesus said to him: Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God. (DRV) I know this verse very well, and I've seen this argument before. Jesus repudiates the term "good" for himself and directs it to God, the source of all goodness who alone can grant the gift of eternal life If no one is good, then why do some verses call other men good. The Bible does not contradict itself. Lk 23: 50 ¶ And behold there was a man named Joseph who was a counsellor, [b]a good and a just man, [/b] Lk:6:45: 45 [b]A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good: [/b]and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. (DRV)
God Conquers Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 Let's not forget Genesis 1:31 "God looked at everything he had made, and he found it very good"
Theoketos Posted January 31, 2005 Posted January 31, 2005 [quote name='Catalyst' date='Jan 27 2005, 11:24 PM'] Mother of Mercy....unhhhhh yeah man. Jesus was mercy, His sacrifce was for our reconciliation with God, therefor for our mercy because we didn't deserve it. I [/quote] If Jesus is Mercy, and Mary is the mother of Jesus, then she is the mother of Mercy.
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