Oh yeah...I forgot

[AtheistAlex]

1. What is your position on Baptism?

2. What is your position on atheism?

3. What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose?

4. What is your position on Judaism?

5. What is your position on non-conservative politics?

6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position?

7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy?

8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists?

9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell?

10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11?

11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers?

12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign?

[MagiDragon]

1. Infant Baptism is cool, we were given original sin without our consent, it can be taken away without our consent.

2. Depends, what do you mean by atheism? If you mean agnostic, then i' have no problem with it, assuming you are honestly searching for truth. If you mean you solidly believe that there's no God and nothing will sway you otherwise, then i think you're nuts.

3. Do they support the baby's right to choose?

4. They are our spiritual ancestors and worthy of respect . . . but they should really be joining up with the fullness of the Truth sometime soon.

5. Ummm . . . what sort of question is that?

6. Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.

~ G.K. Chesterton

7. DUH!!! One of my best friends claims to be atheist. Honestly he's a great guy. Who wants a Catholic enemy?

8. Gimme the conservative. No one should have ill will toward the people, just their practice of ripping innocent people to shreds.

9. Ummm . . . neither.

10. Both. (These are very Catholic answers BTW . . . in the Hypostatic Union God chose Both!)

11. Neither.

12. I don't plan to do anything with or to it.

Peace,
Joe

[AtheistAlex]

Thanks.

Honestly, I was looking for a choice, you know, for the "Choose" questions, between those two candidates. And the last one is relative to what you would've done during a Kerry administration had he won.

Oh, yeah and number 5 is pretty direct. Most of the politics I heard on here were mainstream conservativism, so I asked what you feel about non-conservativism, or politics that are not conservative. Make out of that what you will.

Keep it tight,

Alex

[MagiDragon]

Well, in that case, in response to 5, i'd have to say that i don't approve of most non-conservative politics, but you'd have to be more specific for me to give anything definite.

If Kerry had won, i'd have waited around a year or two, and then once i thought his politics were going to start having an effect, i would pull my money out of the stock market. So i guess you could say that i'm investing money in the economy because Bush is prez. *shrugs* I wouldn't do much differently either way . . . maybe i'd pray for the health of all the Supreme Court justices . . . but that would be about it. And I guess i might pray for Kerry's conversion. (I wouldn't care if he would convert *to* or *from* Catholicism, just as long as he doesn't continue to cause scandal!)

So that you know more fully on #7 . . . I'd take anyone who's true to their beliefs before i'd take a disloyal Catholic. I think i'd even rather have a satanist. (Although i'm not really sure about the satanist.)

Peace,
Joe

[Guest Aluigi]

there is a political wing that is not right or left, but is upside-down-and-to-the-right growing on this board . Look up my posts on Bellocian Distributism

[Thy Geekdom Come]

1. Baptism is necessary for salvation. However, not all Baptism is by water...there are extraordinary means, such as Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.

2. Atheism is my enemy. This does not mean, however, that atheists are my enemies.

3. No politician can support "a woman's right to choose" an abortion. Such a right does not exist. Therefore, I cannot support a politician who claims that rights which do not exist really do, when those "rights" conflict with human life.

4. Judaism is the root of our faith. The Jews are sons and daughters of God who have not yet been completely evangelized. We embrace them as friends and neighbors and hope that with us, they will continue to grow in the Truth.

5. I am a conservative morally and a conservative-centrist economically.

6. I can evaluate opinions which conflict with my faith, and my faith will guide me in that evaluation. Condemning an opinion or viewpoint is not the same as condemning a person.

7. An atheist friend. A Catholic enemy would not be a very good Catholic, and thus would would be very untrue to me. An atheist friend is true to himself and me, and if he is true to himself, then he should be capable of becoming a Catholic friend, with time, so long as his truthfulness toward himself is real truth and not false truth motivated by hatred.

8. The first. Abortion, as a non-negotiable, takes precedence.

9. Malcolm X...he's from my home town and he repented of violence before his death. Jerry Falwell, on the other hand, hates Catholicism.

10. Freedom fries, although I only pretend to be in the boycott to annoy my liberal friends. Michael Moore could have some valid points, but his blatent doctoring of film clips speaks for itself. So long as the means are invalid, I cannot trust the ends.

11. Neither. I refuse to choose between two hate-motivated groups. I would sooner be dead than support either a party which would hate me for my religion (Catholic) and race (part Semitic) or a party which would hate me for the color (or lack thereof) of my skin.

12. I plan to continue in college and get my degrees in Classics, Theology, and Counseling. I plan to get married and start a family. I plan to work diligently, be a devout Catholic, and grow in sanctity. Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam.

Some of your questions are unrealistically polar. I hope you will grow here to break from the stereotypes which seem to suggest that we are so divisive.

[AtheistAlex]

Ah, you misunderstand what I am trying to get here. I want not to make you out to be divisive. If I wanted that, I wouldn't need to ask. I would spin whatever you said to make it mean what I wanted.

Really, I want to know 1. who will answer all the questions, 2. how they see these ideas, figures, and groups, and 3. the personality of those that I talk to.

I apologize if I offended you.

Keep your jets cooled,

Alex

[AtheistAlex]

One of my favorites is the Malcolm X one. I expected no one to answer it, so I am pleasantly surprised that you did. I understand you feel the Black Panthers are a hate-motivated group. Hm...interesting.

Oh, and thank you for the education, guys.

Edited February 10, 2005 by AtheistAlex

[Thy Geekdom Come]

You didn't offend me. I really can't answer the Klan vs. Black Panther one. It's a false dichotomy...in real life, there is one more answer: neither.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 10 2005, 02:00 AM'] One of my favorites is the Malcolm X one. I expected no one to answer it, so I am pleasantly surprised that you did. I understand you feel the Black Panthers are a hate-motivated group. Hm...interesting. [/quote]
Perhaps not a murderous group, but certainly hate motivated, given that they feel they need to separate themselves from white people.

Only hate divides.

[AtheistAlex]

Understandable. I guess there are questions I should relent on, then.

[AtheistAlex]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Feb 10 2005, 01:03 AM'] Perhaps not a murderous group, but certainly hate motivated, given that they feel they need to separate themselves from white people.

Only hate divides. [/quote]
Then is Malcolm X a hate-motivated individual?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 10 2005, 02:05 AM'] Then is Malcolm X a hate-motivated individual? [/quote]
I chose him because he repented by the time of his death. During his earlier years, I would not have chosen him.

[AtheistAlex]

ah ha. Cool beans.

[crusader1234]

1. What is your position on Baptism? Its pretty much neccesary for salvation, aside from extraordinary means.

2. What is your position on atheism? I don't get how someone can deny the existance of God. So I think its silly.

3. What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose? Thats a politician that I wouldn't vote for.

4. What is your position on Judaism? Its where we come from, and its a huge part of Catholocism - even if things have changed.

5. What is your position on non-conservative politics? I am Catholic - lets avoid political labels. They're dangerous.

6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position? With charity and truth. If theres a theory or something that somebody has, I'll analyze that theory from an objective and charitable Catholic standpoint to the best of my ability.

7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy? An atheist friend. There is no such thing as a Catholic enemy. Only pretend Catholics would allow themselves to become enemies.

8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists? Obbiously the first of the two. I'm actually pretty much 100% behind number one even outside of abortion.

9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell? Malcolm X

10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11? They're the same thing. I choose French fries and the truth.

11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers? Like Raph said, they're both hate driven and thus I'd choose to shut down both.

12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign? Continue living, continue being Catholic, continue striving for perfection, work harder at school, and in a political sense? Pray.

[theculturewarrior]

[quote name='AtheistAlex' date='Feb 9 2005, 11:55 PM'] 1. What is your position on Baptism?

[/quote]
For my position on baptism, read the beginning of my conversion story in the converts thread. The title of the thread is "my annoying annual ritual," and it should still me on the first page. Scroll down the thread for more recent additions to the story.

2. What is your position on atheism?

I sympathize. I believe many of the arguments I've heard for atheism and agnosticism are compelling, and in fact, I used to call myself an atheist, and then an agnostic, although I was a "lukewarm" atheist if that makes sense. My position is that, in the end, atheism is despair. If you don't have faith, you believe in nothing and no one. If you believe in nothing, hope is alien to you, and love become meaningless and unjustifiable. That has been my experience, anyway.

[quote]What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose?[/quote]

I was born into a country and an era that did not recognize my right to be born. If we don't have a right to be born, what rights do we have?

[quote]4. What is your position on Judaism?[/quote]

They are heirs to a salvific and noble tradition, that found its completion in Jesus Christ. They are our Elder Brothers in the Judeo-Christian tradition. Unfortunately, they are living the drama of not knowing their Messiah.

[quote]5. What is your position on non-conservative politics?[/quote]

I hate politics. I'd rather talk to and about my imaginary friends. Politics are the only thing I'm agnostic about.

[quote]6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position?[/quote]

My religious "position" has no bearing on this. I love people. I love the diffences, the eccentricities that make life worth living. I love having a faith the leaves me with no intellectual cowardice, no, I don't like having my worldview deconstructed and sneered at, who does. But with Faith and Reason, I can be friends with anybody, from any worldview. Catholicism is a cosmopolitan religion.

I also find that faith in God and my worldview leaves me more open to lifes little adventures.

[quote]7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy?[/quote]

We are called to love both friends and enemies, atheist and Catholic.

[quote]8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists?[/quote]

I wouuld not vote for a pro choice republican.

[quote]9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell?[/quote]

Malcolm X.

[quote]10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11?[/quote]

I'm not sure what's meant by freedom fries, but I defend Michael Moore freedom of speech.

[quote]11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers?[/quote]

This is an insulting question. It doesn't deserve a response. Is this "left of center" tolerance?

[quote]12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign?[/quote]

Grow in faith and love.

[desertwoman]

1. What is your position on Baptism?

It is a symbol to the world that you are now saved, and it also represents the death of the old you and the birth of the new you.

2. What is your position on atheism?

I really don't have a position on that as of yet. I have stew in it a little bit more.

3. What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose?

Nothing really

4. What is your position on Judaism?

Judaism is the precursor.

5. What is your position on non-conservative politics?

The same as I do with any political stance. I take it with a grain of salt.

6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position?

I listen, look at all of the options, and just keep my mind open. My faith is grounded and nothing can shake it.

7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy?

It's easier to have a friend, so I would have the enemy and see whats wrong.

8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists?

Liberal

9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell?

Malcolm X

10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11?

I still call them French Fries. Mmmmm, French Fries.

11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers?

Black Panthers

12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign?

The same thing I do with any president. Live, survive, and keep one eye open when I sleep.

[Good Friday]

I'm going to respond to most of this with quotations from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I hope that doesn't offend you. It's not that I don't want to take the time to answer your questions personally, but that I feel that they can be accurately answered by the Catechism and that I couldn't add much to them.

[b]1. What is your position on Baptism?[/b]

Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit ([i]vitae spiritualis ianua[/i]), and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1213)

The Lord himself affirms affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation . . . the Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." [i]God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.[/i]

The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This [i]Baptism of blood[/i], like the [i]desire for Baptism[/i], brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

For [i]catechumens[/i] who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

"Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have [i]desired Baptism explicitly[/i] if they had known its necessity.

As regards [i]children who have died without Baptism[/i], the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1257-1261)

[b]2. What is your position on atheism?[/b]

God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Savior. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1).

[b]3. What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose?[/b]

Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.

Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or as a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law . . .

Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication [i]latae sententiae[/i]," "by the very commission of the offense," and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a [i]constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation[/i] . . .

Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #2270-2274)

[b]4. What is your position on Judaism?[/b]

"At all times and in every race, anyone who fears God and does what is right has been acceptable to him. He has, however, willed to make men holy and save them, not as individuals without any bond or link between them, but rather to make them into a people who might acknowledge him and serve him in holiness. He therefore chose the Israelite race to be his own people and established a covenant with it. He gradually instructed this people. . . . All these things, however, happened as a preparation for and figure of that new and perfect covenant which was to be ratified in Christ . . . the New Covenant in his blood; he called together a race made up of Jews and Gentiles which would be one, not according to the flesh, but in the Spirit. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #781)

[b]5. What is your position on non-conservative politics?[/b]

If authority belongs to the order established by God, "the choice of the political regime and the appointment of rulers are left to the free decision of the citizens."

The diversity of political regimes is morally acceptable, provided they serve the legitimate good of the communities that adopt them. Regimes whose nature is contrary to the natural law, to the public order, and to the fundamental rights of persons cannot achieve the common good of the nations on which they have been imposed.

Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a "moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility" . . .

Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, "authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #1901-1903)

[b]6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position?[/b]

"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #819)

[b]7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy?[/b]

Our Catholic faith calls us to love our atheist friends and our Catholic enemies, as well as our atheist enemies and our Catholic friends -- we are called to love all people. It would be inappropriate, from a Catholic perspective, to choose between them. We should be praying for both.

[b]8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists?[/b]

It depends on what you mean by this. Conservatives don't have to feel ill will toward abortionists, and in fact should not -- Catholics are called to love their enemies and to hate the sin rather than the sinner. Thus, while we do hate abortion and must work to oppose it, we shouldn't feel ill will toward abortionists. It's not a requirement of Catholic teaching for anyone to feel ill will toward abortionists. Quite the opposite, actually.

I'm assuming you're asking who we would support: a pro-life liberal, or a pro-choice conservative? Abortion is the most important issue of Catholic moral and social teaching, because it is the most grave violation of the inalienable right to life, which is the foundation of all other human and/or civil rights. Thus, Catholics are bound to always support the candidate(s) who are pro-life, be they conservative or liberal. The answer to your question is that Catholics would be bound to support the pro-life liberal's candidacy over the pro-choice conservative's candidacy. In the event that both candidates are pro-life, or in the event that both are pro-choice, Catholics must examine their positions on other issues and decide which would better preserve the common good.

[b]9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell?[/b]

A Catholic should pray for both and support the rhetoric of neither.

[b]10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11?[/b]

From a Catholic perspective it would be more appropriate to boycott Fahrenheit 9/11 because it is calumnious, and calumny is a sin. By watching Fahrenheit 9/11, Catholics would be fueling the calumny by contributing funds to the individual who created the calumny.

"Freedom fries," on the other hand, are a sign of arrogant nationalism and hatred toward another nation -- France. No Catholic should support "freedom fries" for that reason.

[b]11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers?[/b]

As I said above, Catholics should pray for both and support the rhetoric of neither. It would be sinful for a Catholic to belong to either of these organizations because they exist solely for the purpose of promoting racism.

[b]12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign?[/b]

Personally, I plan to pray that he'll do what he promised to do regarding life issues and that God will stay his hand on other issues (particularly war with Iran). I don't know what my other Catholic sisters and brothers plan to do with his second term.

[Melchisedec]

1. What is your position on Baptism?
Not needed, just a supertisous belief.

2. What is your position on atheism?
Its the only proovable position that exists today. Every other form of belief requires faith which basicly requires no proof whatsoever to believe in something. Like say, pink elephants.

3. What is your position on any politician that supports a woman's right to choose?
I think a women should be able to choose but yet I believe that people should be responsible and that the choice can be a scape goat. Im on the fence on this one. Personally I would keep my child.

4. What is your position on Judaism?
There gods CHOSEN people right? The rest of us are just along for the ride.

5. What is your position on non-conservative politics?
I think they entertain to many conspiracy theories. Lay off the weed guys. Just a little

6. How do you open yourself to new minds and experiences without changing your religious position?
Religion has been my lifes persuit. Knowing a god and basking in the light of spirtual truths was my everything. Going through that, has made me empathize with believers and I enjoy conversing with knowledegable ones that have fascinating concepts.

7. Choose: an atheist friend, or a Catholic enemy?
athiest friend, hands down.

8. Choose: abortion-hating liberal willing to give reparations, tax breaks to blacks, free immigration to all, etc., or a staunch conservative who feels no ill will toward abortionists? Reparations for blacks, way over due. Ill take the liberal.

9. Choose: Malcolm X, or Jerry Falwell? Malcom X, post mecca visit.

10. Choose: Freedom fries or a boycott of Farenheit 9/11?
Neither, both garbage, and too much of those trans fats.

11. Choose: Klan or Black Panthers?
Neither, klan wants to kill me and the black panters would never trust me.

12. What do you plan to do with the next four years of Bush's reign?
I plan on living and doing everything that Ive always done. Minus NPR news.

[God Conquers]

1- Baptism is awesome.... it's necessary for salvation. Babies should be baptized.

2- I don't think it really exists because I don't think deep down anyone actually believes there is no God. Look around you at nature, listen to a bird sing, feel the grass beneath your toes. Only an intelligently designed world could be so ordered towards our happiness.

3- Women do not have the right to choose the death of their child. There are three basic rights which build upon each other: LIFE, LIBERTY and PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. Right to LIFE trumps the right to LIBERTY. If it means a child lives, then a mother's liberty might have to be restricted for 9 months, and if she doesn't want the baby, someone else does so give it up for adoption.

4- Fathers of our faith. Great comedians.

5- uh... I don't have a position on that really, other than that I'm not one.

6- I listen with love, and evaluate with Reason illuminated by Faith. I'd like to say I have an open mind, but you must have a firm position in order to dialogue. I love the Chesterton quote from before...

7- Atheist friend, then hope the Catholic forgives me for whatever I did to make him my enemy.

8- Being pro-life is the only non-negotiable in my politics. I'd wonder why that Liberal is pro-life though, because his/her other policies are silly.

9- Malcolm.... without the anger. Fallwell scares the heck out of me.

10- er, I'm Canadian so I'll go with- POUTINE!!!!!

11- Neither... I don't think either are signs of a healthy mind or society.

12- Watch from afar and hope that he continues to make the US Pro-Life so that maybe my country will follow suit some day.

Good questions.