toledo_jesus Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 [url="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=8&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_he_me/drug_resistant_hiv"]Drug resistant HIV, progressed rapidly to AIDS[/url] Does anybody here believe that HIV/AIDS is something akin to a divine punishment? After reading this article and its account of the infected person, I tend to believe that kind of behavior might just be getting an Old Testament treatment.
LSW Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Feb 12 2005, 12:32 PM'] [url="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=8&u=/ap/20050212/ap_on_he_me/drug_resistant_hiv"]Drug resistant HIV, progressed rapidly to AIDS[/url] Does anybody here believe that HIV/AIDS is something akin to a divine punishment? After reading this article and its account of the infected person, I tend to believe that kind of behavior might just be getting an Old Testament treatment. [/quote] Yeah I read about this yesterday. There was also an article I read that talked about a new kind of STD known as LGV which has been detected among homosexual and bi-sexual males. So to answer your question, yes I do believe that this could be a form of divine punishment.
Guest Zewe Comma Chris Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 Yes, of course it's divine punishment! We all know that diseases don't just come about on their own! Continue to blame the world's/your problems on religious nonsense. That's the true Christian way.
Good Friday Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 You're not actually suggesting that HIV/AIDS is punishment for gay people, [b]are you[/b]? That would, of course, be absurd -- since straight people get it too. It would also be absurd because it can be acquired through blood transfusions, through non-sexual exposure to blood or other bodily fluids (especially if you have an open wound), through the sharing of needles, by children of those who have HIV/AIDS, and I could go on. Tell me, when a baby is born with HIV/AIDS because his mother had it, is the baby being punished? What kind of god does that? Not the Catholic God. When a woman is raped and contracts HIV/AIDS, is she being punished? What kind of god does that? Not the Catholic God. When a nurse who is taking care of a dying HIV/AIDS patients gets scratched and contracts HIV/AIDS, is the nurse being punished? What kind of god does that? Not the Catholic God. And for that matter, when a gay man makes a mistake, has sex with another gay man, and contracts HIV/AIDS -- are you really saying that he's being punished in that way? What kind of god does that? Not the Catholic God. Not the God who became a human. Not the God who was born in a cave. Not the God who was scourged and crowned with thorns. Not the God who was hung on a Cross. Maybe the god of Osama bin Laden or Jerry Falwell, but not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not my God. HIV/AIDS is a disease like any other. No one is responsible for it, and no one deserves to have it. How dare you suggest otherwise.
Guest Aluigi Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 I agree with GF and the Church, it isn't a punishment.
Dave Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 GF, Zewe Comma Chris was just being sarcastic. He's also posted here under the name Chris Zewe. This guy isn't Catholic -- not even Christian, actually. I don't know if he's an atheist or what. Note his final quote: [quote]Continue to blame the world's/your problems on religious nonsense. That's the true Christian way. [/quote]
Guest Aluigi Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 we know, we're talking about the FIRST TWO posters.
Dave Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='Aluigi' date='Feb 12 2005, 04:51 PM'] we know, we're talking about the FIRST TWO posters. [/quote] Oops ... that's what I get for not reading a thread carefully. Anybody want to give me a swift kick in the butt? *bends over*
Good Friday Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 (edited) I'm talking about the first two posters: [quote name='toledo_jesus']Does anybody here believe that HIV/AIDS is something akin to a divine punishment? After reading this article and its account of the infected person, I tend to believe that kind of behavior might just be getting an Old Testament treatment.[/quote] [quote name='LSW']Yeah I read about this yesterday. There was also an article I read that talked about a new kind of STD known as LGV which has been detected among homosexual and bi-sexual males. So to answer your question, yes I do believe that this could be a form of divine punishment.[/quote] Clearly, both of them think this is divine punishment... they said so. On the topic of the LGV disease, which is [b]currently[/b] only detected among homosexual and bisexual men, it is not a new STD -- it is new to the United States, but it has existed for quite some time in The Netherlands and other parts of Europe. God isn't up there thinking up new diseases to kill gay men with, sorry to burst your bubble LSW. [b]Edit:[/b] The definition of LGV -- Lymphogranuloma venereum is caused by [i]Chlamydia trachomatis[/i] serotypes L1, L2 and L3. The primary genital lesion, which is rarely demonstrable in women, usually occurs in men as a purulent ulcer on the penis that heals within a few days. After a latent period of days or months, an acute fluctuant inguinal lymphadenopathy develops. In the late stages of the disease, chronic lymphatic obstruction may result in lymphoedema (elephantiasis) of the external genitalia. My reason for providing this definition is first of all to show that while it is [b]rarely[/b] demonstrable in women, it has been demonstrable in women -- so it is not a "gay disease." Secondly, it is a variant of [i]Chlamydia[/i], which is normally a disease carried by men that primarily affects women -- in other words, a disease common to heterosexuals. Thus, the disease that is the derivative of a disease common to heterosexuals cannot possibly be perceived as a punishment of homosexuals. Edited February 12, 2005 by Good Friday
God Conquers Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 If there were no promiscuity there would be no STDs.
Good Friday Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 [quote name='God Conquers']If there were no promiscuity there would be no STDs.[/quote] As I said, HIV/AIDS is transmitted through other means than sex. It is commonly a sexually transmitted disease, but not exclusively. Saying that it would not exist if there was no promiscuity is a bit of a leap. The fact that STDs would not exist if there were no promiscuity does not make STDs punishment for promiscuity.
Guest Aluigi Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 it should be an incentive not to have sex outside of marriage, and it is obvious that promiscuity has turned it into the worldwide epidemic it is today, but there is no reason to make some direct connection that it's some sort of Divine Punishment. but by Divine Providence it is an incentive against promiscuity.
God Conquers Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 No, but it makes a reasonable case against promiscuity. HIV/AIDS would be severely SEVERELY limited were it not for multiple partners.
Guest Zewe Comma Chris Posted February 12, 2005 Posted February 12, 2005 ...Wow. This is ridiculous. If any of you actually get the point I'm trying to convey with this post, I'll be very proud of you.
RandomProddy Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='Zewe Comma Chris' date='Feb 13 2005, 12:19 AM'] ...Wow. This is ridiculous. If any of you actually get the point I'm trying to convey with this post, I'll be very proud of you. [/quote] I wonder if Gypsy fortune tellers use the internet....
Guest Zewe Comma Chris Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Feb 12 2005, 07:09 PM'] I wonder if Gypsy fortune tellers use the internet.... [/quote] 42.
PedroX Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 Ah, Chris, that is the answer, but what is the question? peace...
toledo_jesus Posted February 13, 2005 Author Posted February 13, 2005 perhaps I should have clarified. I did not mean a punishment for homosexual activity in particular, and certainly not for being a homosexual. I meant a punishment for this sexual behavior that is so blatantly against God's will...sex outside of marriage, drug use, etc. Does God allow this disease to exist as an incentive not to commit these sins? That's what I meant. I'm not denying that some people are victimized by the sins of others. oh whatever, I don't want to offend people's sensibilities. Thought it would make a good debate question. GF seems to want the discussion to end. [quote]I agree with GF and the Church, it isn't a punishment. [/quote] What does the Church say? [quote]we know, we're talking about the FIRST TWO posters.[/quote] are you talking about us or the posts. maybe it's the lack of inflection, but there already seems to be an us-them feel to this thread. Perhaps my only motivation for asking was to see what people thought. Perhaps there's no agenda and we can keep this civil. [quote] How dare you suggest otherwise.[/quote] I dare anything . It's not that big a deal, really. Just present your opinion and move on. That's all I want. I don't want you to get all huffy about it. Thank you.
Sinner Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I dont think it is a divine punishment. On the other hand, I believe everything happens for a reason. I do not believe all suffering is pointless. I have some britches that are somewhat huffy..... what does that make me? HuffyBritches?
Socrates Posted February 13, 2005 Posted February 13, 2005 I believe in a sense, AIDS can be called a divine punishment for sin. All evil is the result ultimately of sin. AIDS is not divine intervention in a supernatural sense, but God's laws acting through nature. Obviously, the innocent can suffer from AIDS, as the innocent suffer for all evil, but there is an obvious corolation between AIDS and sin, especially unnatural vice. Homosexuality is a sin contrary to nature, and therefore the natural result of such activity is disease and death. AIDS is contracted much more readily through this disgusting practice than through natural heterosexual intercourse. (Heterosexual) sexual promiscuity also increases the spread of this disease. This is another sin. Intravenous drug use also is a major factor in its spread. What is obvious, is that if people lived moral lives and avoided these immoral activities, there would be less of this horrible disease in this world.
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