Guest Zewe Comma Chris Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='RandomProddy' date='Feb 12 2005, 07:09 PM'] I wonder if Gypsy fortune tellers use the internet.... [/quote] 42. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Ah, Chris, that is the answer, but what is the question? peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 perhaps I should have clarified. I did not mean a punishment for homosexual activity in particular, and certainly not for being a homosexual. I meant a punishment for this sexual behavior that is so blatantly against God's will...sex outside of marriage, drug use, etc. Does God allow this disease to exist as an incentive not to commit these sins? That's what I meant. I'm not denying that some people are victimized by the sins of others. oh whatever, I don't want to offend people's sensibilities. Thought it would make a good debate question. GF seems to want the discussion to end. [quote]I agree with GF and the Church, it isn't a punishment. [/quote] What does the Church say? [quote]we know, we're talking about the FIRST TWO posters.[/quote] are you talking about us or the posts. maybe it's the lack of inflection, but there already seems to be an us-them feel to this thread. Perhaps my only motivation for asking was to see what people thought. Perhaps there's no agenda and we can keep this civil. [quote] How dare you suggest otherwise.[/quote] I dare anything . It's not that big a deal, really. Just present your opinion and move on. That's all I want. I don't want you to get all huffy about it. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinner Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I dont think it is a divine punishment. On the other hand, I believe everything happens for a reason. I do not believe all suffering is pointless. I have some britches that are somewhat huffy..... what does that make me? HuffyBritches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I believe in a sense, AIDS can be called a divine punishment for sin. All evil is the result ultimately of sin. AIDS is not divine intervention in a supernatural sense, but God's laws acting through nature. Obviously, the innocent can suffer from AIDS, as the innocent suffer for all evil, but there is an obvious corolation between AIDS and sin, especially unnatural vice. Homosexuality is a sin contrary to nature, and therefore the natural result of such activity is disease and death. AIDS is contracted much more readily through this disgusting practice than through natural heterosexual intercourse. (Heterosexual) sexual promiscuity also increases the spread of this disease. This is another sin. Intravenous drug use also is a major factor in its spread. What is obvious, is that if people lived moral lives and avoided these immoral activities, there would be less of this horrible disease in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Cube Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I don't know if AIDS is a divine punishment, but it's true that if everyone were chaste and didn't inject drugs, and if people with HIV didn't marry, donate blood or do anything else that could transmit the disease, AIDS would be history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hello Toxi. Long time no see, but thats mostly because I wasn't looking. Chris, have you ever TRIED to make a meaningful post? Imean, you deserve it, you go out of your way to make so many meaningless ones, that a meaningful post could possibly do you some good. Maybe it's because your afraid you may say something that might retrigger the almost conversition last year? Well, God bless either way. Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Friday Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I demand that the moderators close this senseless thread which is contrary to both the spirit and the letter of Catholic teaching. [quote name='Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers' date=' United States Conference of Catholic Bishops']Without condoning self-destructive behavior or denying personal responsibility, we reject the idea that HIV/AIDS is a direct punishment from God. Furthermore [quote]Persons with AIDS are not distant, unfamiliar people, the objects of our mingled pity and aversion. We must keep them present to our consciousness as individuals and as a community, and embrace them with unconditional love. . . . Compassion--love--toward persons infected with HIV is the only authentic Gospel response. (National Conference of Catholic Bishops, [i]Called to Compassion and Responsibility: A Response to the HIV/AIDS Crisis[/i], 1989).[/quote] Nothing in the Bible or in Catholic teaching can be used to justify prejudicial or discriminatory attitudes and behaviors. We reiterate here what we said in an earlier statement: [quote]We call on all Christians and citizens of good will to confront their own fears about homosexuality and to curb the humor and discrimination that offend homosexual persons. We understand that having a homosexual orientation brings with it enough anxiety, pain and issues related to self-acceptance without society bringing additional prejudicial treatment. ([i]Human Sexuality: A Catholic Perspective for Education and Lifelong Learning[i], 1991, p. 55).[/quote][/quote] Catholics need to have more respect for what the bishops have said here and less concern for their own opinions about divine punishment and the garbage that I've seen spewed in this thread. This thread should be closed and this senseless discussion should be off limits. It qualifies as Catholic vs. Catholic debate since the teaching of the American bishops is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiclesis Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 God doesn't need to punish us in this life for our sins. The natural consequences of sinfull actions are punishment all on their own. Sometimes the consequences of those sins hurt others too. That is one of the reasons for seemingly senseless suffering in this world. The Church teaches that there are natural laws given to us by our Creator. When we violate those natural laws things have a way of going badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 [quote name='epiclesis' date='Feb 13 2005, 09:38 AM'] God doesn't need to punish us in this life for our sins. The natural consequences of sinfull actions are punishment all on their own. Sometimes the consequences of those sins hurt others too. That is one of the reasons for seemingly senseless suffering in this world. The Church teaches that there are natural laws given to us by our Creator. When we violate those natural laws things have a way of going badly. [/quote] EACTLY, epiclesis! If God is using Aids/HIV as a divine punishment, His aim isn't very good as many 'innocent' people contract it and suffer and die from it. Aids/HIV is a consequence of sin that ALSO affects the innocent. WE ALL SIN and pass on the consequences to those who are innocent of OUR SIN. This includes [u]everyone[/u] who is sexually promiscuous passing STD's onto their children or chaste spose. [u]Aids/HIV is just another deadly STD and is not a 'divine punishemnt' or 'plague on the 'gay community'.[/u]. The fact that most vicitims were homosexual is just a statistical circumstance that indicates sexual promiscuity (a sin that doesn't care who or what you are having sex with) occured in a population that shared traits. It's not a 'gay' disease, any more than herpes is a 'teen' disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Cube Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Yeah, from what I said earlier it seems like I don't think AIDS is any special divine punishment. I do believe in chastisement though, as an act of mercy by God, because of things like Psalm 118:18, "I was punished by the Lord, but not doomed to die," but I don't ask anyone else to believe in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 "The wages of sin is death." It is well-established fact that sodomy greatly increases the risk of HIV/AIDS. Sodomy is a sinful, perverted, and unhealthy activity which by its nature tends to lead to disease. The fact that some other innocent people get this disease does nothing to change this fact. Some innocent people always suffer from the sin of others. Whether one sees this as punishment from God is open to debate - it is ultimately not important. (And the P.C. "All My Children" document does not count as de fide Church teaching - the American Council of Bishops by itself does constitute the Magisterium -thank God!) Perhaps AIDS is better seen as God's mercy - allowing people to repent of their sins and perversion before entering the everlasting fires of Hell. But the undisputable fact remains; homosexual activity and AIDS are related. The secular media has no problem with proclaiming the the facts that: Smoking greatly increases the risk of lung cancer. Excessive drinking greatly increases the risk of lung disease. Overeating of fatty foods increases the risk of heart attack. Yet to suggest that sodomy increases the risk of AIDS, is to be labeled a bigot by the "tolerant" Left. Pointing out this fact is an act of charity and can save lives and souls. It is no more an expression of "hate" towards homosexuals than pointing out the risks of smoking is an act of hate towards smokers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I've closed this thread due to repeated reports, for reasons including "offense against charity and human dignity," and it being a Catholic vs. Catholic debate. While not necessarily a doctrinal debate I do believe that it is causing some degree of scandal and is better off closed. God Bless. [quote]Catholic vs Catholic Debate- a post or comment that results in doctrinal debates that might cause scandal among the faithful.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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