Girl Altar Servers?

[Cam42]

[quote]I am even more opposed to the practice of having female EMs.
[/quote]

Actually, unless there are thousands of people at Mass, [b]I am opposed to having any[/b] Extra-ordianary ministers of Holy Communion (herefore known as EMHC).

The EMHC is for dire situations only, not merely convience. There needs to be a true and complete need for them. 99% of parish churches do not need them. If you can prove that a parish of 500 families or a college chapel of 250-300 attendees needs EMHC, give it a shot, but I don't think that it can work....

I agree with Socrates on this one....see how non-sexist I am.....and it isn't a total rail on women.

Cam42

P.S. Mikey gotta hit up trainorsr's room on Paltalk one of these days....It usually is up by 9:30p ET. Later

Cam42

[missionarybelle]

Personally, I'm a girl altar server but I only became one because my brother was to scared to do it by himself and also I liked the chance to ba able to participate in what was going on. I don't really still care to altar serve anymore but I havn't gotten around to taking my name off the scedule (I'm just Lazy) I have learned ALOT from being an altar server about the parts of the Mass, the vestments and other curchly items. whenever I altar serve I never where makeup or jewelry so as not to be a disstraction. I do however think it's beautiful when there are all guys up there but also we don't have enough altar servers in our parish. at one of the Masses only 2 families serve and they just switch out every other week.

I do like it better when its all boys though.

Angelle

[MichaelFilo]

I'd assume your a younger person then... on the debate table. Excellent. Yes, my days for being an alter server ended 2 years ago... darn...

Cases like yours seem acceptable. Sadly it's much worse in big parishes where there are boys and plenty of them to fill the positions..

God bless,
Mikey

[Cam42]

As far as things go in the Church, there have been things that have been rescinded by the Church in regard to the Liturgy.....like the prohibition on Gregorian Chant. There have also been ideals of theology that have been re-accepted, like the idea of Thomism.

I would say that a prohibition on female altar servers would be a good thing.....there are many other things that women can do in the Church. Heck, my mommy is a trustee of the parish I grew up in. But she doesn't serve Mass....

BTW, nowhere does it say that altar servers have to be children. So all you men out there who would like to serve, unite.....we can be examples too.

Cam42

[bookwyrm]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2005, 11:14 AM'] Mixing of the sexes is distracting for both. What if Johnny is scheduled to serve with Jane and Johnny has a crush on Jane? Or vice versa? Where is the focus. Even if this were not the case, young people are developing sexually and emotionally at this time in their lives and many don't yet understand or control the thoughts in their minds. When one serves at the altar, there should be a focus on the celebration of the Mass, not on whether or not Jane will say yes for pizza after Mass. [/quote]
And what if Johnny and Jane just happen to go to mass at the same time? Should we segregrate all masses for teenagers? It's up to the individual to control himself or herself.

I'm not saying yea or nay, just wanted to point out that particular reason as being slightly absurd.

[drewmeister2]

I personally disagree with the idea of female altar servers, because originally, the position was used for men, so that they could better discern priesthood.

[picchick]

[quote]The face of the Church is being feminized, because girls are quick to volunteer for everything and slowly guys are disappearing from roles of importance. Just count the number of altar girls there are and contrast it to the number of altar boys in any given parish that allows boys and girls. I suspect you'll find there are many more altar girls.[/quote] -Aluigi


In my church trying to get ANY girls/boys to volunteer for ANYTHING is like pulling teeth. We either have an equal amount of girl/boy servers or there are like one or two more of either.

[quote]Mixing of the sexes is distracting for both.[/quote]-Cam42
[quote]Young guys are less likely to want to serve with a bunch of girls.[/quote]-God Conquers

Then don't have them serve together. My diocese does not allow girls to serve with boys.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to feminize the Church or fight like a feminist to keep girl servers but do you really think that the pope would allow girl servers if he saw that it would lead to women priesthood? Although I think it is wonderfull to see men and boys at the altar rather than girls, I see nothing wrong in allowing girls so serve Mass.

[MichaelFilo]

It takes the position of guys that could possibly end up in the priesthood is the only objection to it. In your case, I don't imagine it's a problem since there just arne't enough kids to do it. Althoug Cam had a point, not only kids have to do it.

God bless,
Mikey

[Cam42]

[quote]And what if Johnny and Jane just happen to go to mass at the same time?[/quote]

Unless they are sitting right next to each other, as they would be in the sanctuary, it is a relevant argument.

[quote]Should we segregrate all masses for teenagers? It's up to the individual to control himself or herself.[/quote]

Of course not, but we should practice prudence.....putting teens together in a confined space when one may or may not be attracted to the other may or may not be a distraction. It should be avoided.....

[quote]...do you really think that the pope would allow girl servers if he saw that it would lead to women priesthood?[/quote]

I don't think that he has really thought about it that much. I think that he has left it to the bishops....and the bishops have made a mistake. While I am obedient to the bishops and tolerate the action, I will speak against it...it is simply inappropriate. My statements and proofs have born that out.

I have known many girls and young women whom I have had this conversation with say, "Why can't I be a priest? I can serve." Most of that conversation came from girls I went to undergrad with, but I recently had this conversation with a girl who was remiss because she couldn't serve....she honestly felt that if she were able to serve, she could help affect a change in the policy....gotta love Detroit.

Having to re-catechize the faithful is a hard thing to do. Especially, when the prevailing thought among the vocal minority of female theologians of our day is "Why can't women be allowed to the priesthood?"

But since it is allowed, I tolerate it.....I just don't like it, I think that it is disingenious to both males and females. It does give a false sense of hope.

Cam42

[StPiusVPrayForUs]

"Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: 'Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.' We too have forbidden this practice in the same words...."
--Pope Benedict XIV, Encyclical Allatae Sunt, July 26, 1755

Girls serving the altar is evil, a scandal, and should be stopped. It's a complete fabrication legalized from a liturgic abuse and only more makes the liturgy more socially acceptable to Lutherans, not God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Feb 20 2005, 12:14 PM']
Why? You must have a thought on this. [/quote]
Yes I have, but in this thread I am stating church rules, not my own opinion, since sometimes people can get confused.
I can see both sides of the argument. My personal opinoin would be for boys, but I can live with both.

[Cam42]

[quote]My personal opinoin would be for boys, but I can live with both.[/quote]

We agree.

Cam42

[Mary's Knight, La]

As a former altar server, I prefer all boys.
1. it helped me discern that i wasn't called to the priesthood
2. i have to slightly agree with not seeming to encourage the impossible (female priests) my sister was also an altar server and for a long time (five years give or take) was convinced women should be allowed ordination, I believe it's related.
3. Altar serving is an extension of the priestly ministry and as such I think it properly but not necessarily is intended for men

however, I also am of the opinion all youth say from 8 - 12 should be altar servers. It helps one appreciate the mass so much more because of the different perspective on the parts of the mass ( at least it did with the altar server training I went through)

so i'll compromise and say all boys from 8 - 12 should be an altar server at some point.

[Tink]

Well, I certainly see the overwhleming and unanimous opinion that females are not intended to serve on the altar. And while I understand the delivered reasoning behind such opinions, I don't necessarily agree.

I am aware of the many complications that arise with allowing females to serve, but I also know that the opportunity to serve as the priest (read:MALE PRIEST) comemmorates Christ's death in the Eucharist. As was mentioned before, being present on the altar or in close proximity to it does not increase one's ability to derive abundant graces from the Mass. In this respect, any male discerning religious life can be lead just as easily to such a point through attending Mass with the congregation. The opportunity to serve is always a gift, on the altar and off, and shouldn't be denied to any child looking to take part.

[Myles Domini]

Boys are most proper undoubtedly, but it doesnt mean that women shouldnt serve (after all the Vatican has given that permission over to the local Bishop so let him decide). What I find distasteful is altar girls wearing the same clothes as altar boys. This is wrong and indeeds appear to blur distinctions since the altar boys' outfit is modelled on that of the priest (a role the woman cant have). I would suggest that someone redesign the girls' outfits to look more closely resemble the attire of religious sisters.

[Apotheoun]

The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments after consultation with the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts has given an authoritative clarification on the nature of the indult granted by the Holy See allowing bishops of the Roman Rite to permit women to serve at the altar. The clarification emphasizes that no priest is required to use female altar servers, even if the Local Ordinary has permitted there use in his diocese.

Here is the letter of the Congregation:

[quote]Letter of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments

on possible admission of girls, adult women and women religious to serve alongside boys as servers in the Liturgy

Notitiae - 421-422 Vol 37 (2001) Num/ 8-9 - pp 397-399


A Bishop recently asked the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments whether a Diocesan Bishop would be able to oblige his priests to admit women and girls to service at the altar. This Dicastery has considered it opportune to send this letter to the Bishop in question, and given its particular importance, to publish it here.

_______________

Prot. N.2451/00/L

July 27, 2001


Your Excellency,

Further to recent correspondence, this Congregation resolved to undertake a renewed study of the questions concerning the possible admission of girls, adult women and women religious to serve alongside boys as servers in the Liturgy.

As part of this examination, the Dicastery consulted the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts which replied with a letter of July 23, 2001. The reply of the Pontifical Council was helpful in reaffirming that the questions raised by this Congregation, including [i]the question of whether particular legislation could oblige individual priests in their celebration of the Holy Mass to make use of women to serve at the altar, do not concern the interpretation of the law, but rather are questions of the correct application of the law[/i]. The reply of the aforementioned Pontifical Council, therefore, confirms the understanding of this Dicastery that the matter falls within the competence of this Congregation as delineated by the Apostolic Constitution Pastor Bonus, § 62. Bearing in mind this authoritative response, this Dicastery, having resolved outstanding questions, was able to conclude its own study. At the present time, therefore, the Congregation would wish to make the following observations.

As is clear from the [i]Responsio ad propositum dubium[/i] concerning can. 230, § 2, and its authentic interpretation (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, Prot. n. 2482/93 March 15, 1994, see Notitiae 30 [1994] 333-335), the Diocesan Bishop, in his role as moderator of the liturgical life in the diocese entrusted to his care, has the authority to permit service at the altar by women within the boundaries of the territory entrusted to his care. Moreover his liberty in this question cannot be conditioned by claims in favor of a uniformity between his diocese and other dioceses which would logically lead to the removal of the necessary freedom of action from the individual Diocesan Bishop. Rather, after having heard the opinion of the Episcopal Conference, he is to base his prudential judgment upon what he considers to accord more closely with the local pastoral need for an ordered development of the liturgical life in the diocese entrusted to his care, [i]bearing in mind, among other things, the sensibilities of the faithful, the reasons which would motivate such a permission, and the different liturgical settings and congregations which gather for the Holy Mass[/i] (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 1).

In accord with the above cited instructions of the Holy See such an authorization may not, in any way, exclude men or, in particular, boys from service at the altar, [b][i]nor require that priests of the diocese would make use of female altar servers, since "it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar"[/i][/b] (Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conference, March 15, 1994, no. 2). Indeed, the obligation to support groups of altar boys will always remain, not least of all due to the well known assistance that such programs have provided since time immemorial in encouraging future priestly vocations (cf. ibid.),

[i]With respect to whether the practice of women serving at the altar would truly be of pastoral advantage in the local pastoral situation, it is perhaps helpful to recall that the non-ordained faithful do not have a right to service at the altar, rather they are capable of being admitted to such service by the Sacred Pastors[/i] (cf. Circular Letter to the Presidents of Episcopal Conferences, March 15, 1994, no. 4, cf. also can 228, §1, Interdicasterial Instruction [u]Esslesiae de mysterio[/u], August 15, 1997, no. 4, see Notitiae 34 [1998] 9-42). Therefore, in the event that Your Excellency found it opportune to authorize service of women at the altar, [i]it would remain important to explain clearly to the faithful the nature of this innovation, lest confusion might be introduced, thereby hampering the development of priestly vocations[/i].

Having thus confirmed and further clarified the contents of its previous response to Your Excellency, this Dicastery wishes to assure you of its gratitude for the opportunity to elaborate further upon this question and that it considers this present letter to be normative.

With every good wish and kind regard, I am, Sincerely yours in Christ,

Jorge A. Card. Medina Estévez
Prefect

Mons. Mario Marini
Under Secretary[/quote]

It should be noted that in the Eastern Catholic Churches women are prohibited from serving at the altar, and so any Eastern Churches that have admitted women to this liturgical role should desist immediately from the practice, because it is a liturgical abuse.

God bless,
Todd

[Pieta]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Feb 19 2005, 11:14 PM']The Church has said it was fine, so it is.[/quote]
My daughter serves with pride. Our mass is mostly Latin, our responses and chanting Latin as well. Our priest is beyond conservative, moving slowly toward an entirely Latin mass. Father states that girls on the altar is in keeping with the Church teaching and if my daughter feels called to serve, she should serve. She has been highly trained and knows that the altar was once the training ground for priests. When the time comes, she will step down. In the meantime, she adores our Lord, feels blessed to be on the altar during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and would never harm her Church to satisfy a whim. Women cannot serve in a priestly capacity, let us serve where we can. Our Mass Leaders all agree, my daughter is the most reverent of all servers. If she didn't attend daily mass, Father would have no help at all. The day that women become priests is the day that I leave the Church. Girls serving on the altar are not a threat, nor are they distracting, they are serving and the peace of our Lord be with them.

[Apotheoun]

As a Byzantine Catholic I am happy that the Eastern Catholic Churches continue to uphold the 2,000 year tradition of not allowing women to serve at the altar.

[stargirl3:16]

I have been an altar server. My brother and my sister have also been altar servers. I think that there is nothing wrong with it, though I find it interesting that after each of us stopped being altar servers we started serving in another way(i.e. lector, EM, etc.)

[JP2Iloveyou]

[quote]Girls serving the altar is evil, a scandal, and should be stopped. It's a complete fabrication legalized from a liturgic abuse and only more makes the liturgy more socially acceptable to Lutherans, not God.[/quote]

Hold on there man! I prefer all male altar servers as much as the next guy, but the Church has said that in cases where there is a pastoral need, it is acceptable. I don't know who you are, but in a debate between you and the Church, I'll take the side of the Church. There are a lot of things that are evil. A discipline that has the approval of the Church is certainly not one of them.

You cannot be more Catholic than the pope. I don't want to pretend to speak for St. Pius V, but he was a faithful son of the Church and I suspect that he would not like someone using his name and invoking his intercession AGAINST something the Church has instituted.