Constantine

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Feb 28 2005, 07:04 PM'] Haven't seen Constantine, but I wanted to say I think there is a point in people being troubled by this and similar comics or movies with religious themes.

I think everyone sees them as fantasy and nonsense, but I think taking creative liberties with Catholic theology can confuse people as to what the Catholic Church indeed teaches, especially today when many people are so badly educated about the Faith.

I also think its problematic in these comics that have a plot theme of heros making a deal with the devil or beating the devil at his own game (such as Spawn), rather than following God. This can be dangerous for impressionable youth.

I haven't seen the flick and haven't read the comics, and I'm not out condemning all such things, I just wanted to point out that there is a bit more at stake when spiritual and theological themes are taken liberty with, rather than the laws of science (as in mutants, radioactive spiders, etc.) [/quote]
Exactly.

[DemonSlayer]

That film was pretty bad, it was too confusing (not for me personally) and boring, had no real point and it misrepresents Catholicism, with the occultic elements (e.g. a metal cross which can sanctify water, and the amulet which protects you from demons), the mistruths about Jesus Christ (e.g. Him dying from being pierced by a spear) and Catholic theology/dogma (e.g. suicide closing the door on any possibility of salvation).
And what was up with the angel swearing, trying to unleash the son of satan into the world and consequently being made into a human by God...
Ultimately it doesn't truly say anything good about God.

Edited March 3, 2005 by DemonSlayer

[musturde]

This movie was pretty good but It mixed up our beliefs a lot. Now I wouldn't do what Constantine did in the last part of the movie, when he cuts himself to save the girl, but that's just part of the fiction. They may have just made it very absurd so they would make it seem fictatious and no one would get offended. I don't think many outside our faith will try to connect this movie to any of our beliefs.

[Lil Red]

here's the usccb.org's review of it:

[quote]Constantine


Intensely violent action film, based on the "Hellblazer" graphic novels, about a world-weary, chain-smoking exorcist (Keanu Reeves) fighting lung cancer and demonic forces with the help of a police detective (Rachel Weisz), whose twin sister either committed suicide or was murdered and is now consigned to the fires of hell. Though gussied up with all sorts of religious mumbo jumbo -- the powers of good versus the forces of evil, self-sacrifice, redemption, a Gabriel character (Tilda Swinton), and a "sword of destiny" (aka the weapon used to pierce Christ on the cross) -- Francis Lawrence's film is basically another formulaic action film -- think "The Exorcist," "Alien" and "The Matrix" rolled into one -- that's only fitfully interesting, when the gory bits aren't positively wince-inducing. Graphic violence with attendant gore, some rough and crude language, and some sacrilegious imagery. L -- limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling. ® 2005
Full Review
Think "The Exorcist," "Alien," "The Sixth Sense" "Rosemary's Baby" and "The Matrix" rolled into one, and you have a fair idea of what awaits you in "Constantine" (Warner Bros.).

Based on the DC/Vertigo "Hellblazer" series of graphic novels by Jamie Delano and Garth Ennis, this is an intensely violent action film, with a pretentious veneer of religiosity.

At its center we have John Constantine (Keanu Reeves), a world-weary, chain-smoking exorcist fighting lung cancer and demonic forces. The first exorcism he performs, on a Latina girl in Los Angeles, makes the Linda Blair scenes in the first "Exorcist" look tame. His method includes capturing the inner demon in a mirror, and throwing it out the window!

Meanwhile, there's police detective Angela Dodson (Rachel Weisz), deeply troubled about her twin sister, recently confined to a mental institution and a presumed suicide.

But Angela knows her sister was a good Catholic and would never have ended her life, so reasons she must have been murdered. When Angela approaches a priest about having a proper funeral for her sister, he says a kind but firm "no."

She's heard of Constantine, so she tracks him down, flashes her badge, and states her case. Constantine has just heard that he may only have a short time to live, and is reluctant to help her, but she wins him over.

"Heaven and hell are right here," he tells Angela. "Angels and demons can't cross over, but we have half-breeds." These are creatures who look human but are, in fact, in league with God or the devil.

Since he was a child, Constantine had the uncanny ability to see them, and when electric shocks and the like failed to "cure" him, he tried to kill himself, which means he's destined for an eternity in hell, whose residents are doomed to be "ripped apart in screaming agony."

He hopes that by rooting out demons he'll earn brownie points for heaven, but to his anxious queries -- "Haven't I served him enough?" -- the angel Gabriel (Tilda Swinton in male drag) proffers little hope. Later, Constantine prays to God, "I know I'm not welcome in your house, but I could use some attention."

Constantine travels with his trusty apprentice Chaz (Shia LaBeouf), who longs to do more than serve as his driver. There's also a nebbishy occult expert who keeps Constantine armed with the latest demon-busting paraphernalia. And a troubled priest (Pruitt Taylor Vince), a recovered alcoholic who fears a relapse. He wears an amulet around his neck to ward off evil spirits, but when he's persuaded to part with it, big trouble comes his way. Later, Angela carelessly removes her spirit-proof amulet, and probably wishes she hadn't. (It's that kind of movie, where characters do illogical things.)

Constantine frequents a private bar, run by a black honcho named Midnite (Djimon Hounsou), who has a sinister sidekick named Balthazaar (Gavin Rossdale), the devil's henchman.

None of Constantine's cronies believe it's possible that full-blown demons are manifesting themselves on earth, but Constantine knows better. After being attacked by a real demon on a rainy night -- shown with genuinely creepy special effects -- Constantine begins to intuit that the demons may be ready to break through in their unadulterated awfulness.

Constantine tells Angela they had better determine whether Isabel is indeed in hell. With the aid of a cat, and sitting with his feet in a pan of water, he's able to take an excursion to hell, portrayed in the traditional way -- lots of red, frightening creatures and writhing bodies.

Later, Angela confesses that her sister was put away because she had the power to see strange things, and Angela can, too, though she's denied it to herself all her life. She asks him if she can test out her spirit-discerning abilities, and Constantine obliges by holding her under the water in a bathtub, a distasteful scene that reads as a brutal drowning, even though it's not.

Though gussied up with all sorts of religious mumbo jumbo -- the powers of good versus the forces of evil, self-sacrifice, redemption, the Gabriel character, and a "sword of destiny" (aka the weapon used to pierce Christ on the cross), currently in the hands of a Mexican peasant -- Francis Lawrence's film is basically another formulaic action film riddled with violence. It's also one that's only fitfully interesting since we've seen most of this before, when the gory bits aren't positively wince-inducing.

The film has a noirish feel, and beyond the hocus pocus Reeves radiates something of the persona of a world-weary private eye of the Raymond Chandler school. Weisz, with her Brooke Shields' good looks, is OK as the love interest. Swinton's Gabriel is reminiscent of Emma Thompson's angel turn in "Angels in America," but whether she's actually supposed to be a woman is never truly explained.

"Only in the time of horror can you find your noblest self," Gabriel informs Constantine, emblematic of the film's poppycock philosophy.

This film contains graphic violence with attendant gore, some rough and crude language, and some sacrilegious imagery. The USCCB Office for Film & Broadcasting classification is L -- limited adult audience, films whose problematic content many adults would find troubling. The Motion Picture Association of America rating is R -- restricted. [/quote]

[Fixxxer]

[quote name='musturde' date='Mar 4 2005, 11:21 PM'] This movie was pretty good but It mixed up our beliefs a lot. Now I wouldn't do what Constantine did in the last part of the movie, when he cuts himself to save the girl, but that's just part of the fiction. They may have just made it very absurd so they would make it seem fictatious and no one would get offended. I don't think many outside our faith will try to connect this movie to any of our beliefs. [/quote]
He cuts himself to stop time, so lucifer can stop his son from being born. if his son was born he would be killed then

[musturde]

[quote name='Fixxxer' date='Mar 5 2005, 03:17 AM'] He cuts himself to stop time, so lucifer can stop his son from being born. if his son was born he would be killed then [/quote]
I'm replying to someone elses comment saying they don't agree with that part being in the movie. I was trying to say that this is a fiction to begin with and that although i wouldn't do it myself, It doesn't make the movie bad.

[Fixxxer]

[quote name='musturde' date='Mar 6 2005, 12:39 AM'] I'm replying to someone elses comment saying they don't agree with that part being in the movie. I was trying to say that this is a fiction to begin with and that although i wouldn't do it myself, It doesn't make the movie bad. [/quote]
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use it next time mr. lazy

[musturde]

[quote name='Fixxxer' date='Mar 6 2005, 01:17 AM'] [url="http://img173.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img173ℑ=quote2hi.jpg"][img]http://img173.exs.cx/img173/1952/quote2hi.th.jpg[/img][/url]

use it next time mr. lazy [/quote]
it aint my fault... did i do that?

[Fixxxer]

you did everything!

[Didacus]

I've jst seen this movie yesterday. (yes, I am behind the itmes when it comes to blockbuster entertainment and stuff...)

My take on the movie:

Action - ok, but not extraordinary

Plot: fair.. something you can expect from an aciton movie

Theological: HORRIBLE! the movie should almost be preceded wtih a disclaimer that it does not reflect Catholic teaching and Faith. SFD!!! The Catholic church is portrayed once again as an intransigent entity, and incompetant at that since non-faithfuls are required to perform exorcisms which a Catholic priest cannot?!?!? BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS


Overall, I like better the Prophecy series, who do not offend theologically since they do not refer directly to any christian denomination, and has a plot that is much better laid out.

Constantine is a 'cute' action movie... good for entertainment but nothing else really, as far as I noticed... it might be worth vewing a second time... might... but I won't hold my breath on it.... I prdict that any attempts (should they come) to make a sequel to Constantine, it would bomb miserably at the box office... but that's just me...

Smiles all around...

(oh and that critic from the priest at the start of this thread, and the comments from Socrates i think are right on the money on several key points).

[sarcasmguy126]

who the heck wants to see a movie in which s invade and try to kill people and take their souls, etc.???

thats so crazy

[DemonSlayer]

What Prophecy series?

[White Knight]

I saw this film, and wanted to throw a can at the end of this flick, it just plain, barfs on Catholicism, and praises demonology, satan worship and such.


This film is terrible.

First of all. the Arch-Angel Gabieral is not the Warrior Angel, Hes God's Messager Angel. The Arch-Angel Michael is the Warrior Angel. and another thing, Gaberial is not Evil, and him losing to satan is a insult to God's Power. Why they made Gaberial Evil, is beyond me.


The thing about how Constantine said Jesus didn't die from being nailed into the cross, but gets killed by the spear. WRONG!


The Spear was used to proof that Jesus was already dead, not kill him.

[b]This film as with alot of films today, this film is Anti-Christian. Period. [/b]

[ardillacid]

I don't think it was meant to be the same gabriel

[ardillacid]

1st i'd like to say that the movie wasn't that great.
secondly, the movies representaion (or misrepresentation) of Catholicism was reprehensible.
half demons and half angels? laughable
constantine going to hell to see if someone there?
constantine damned to hell no matter what?
A bible from hell?
Constantine rescuing the girl who commited suicide from hell?
the list goes on and on

bty constantine did kill himself by slittling his wrists...thats why the devil came, to collect his soul!!!

[Didacus]

[quote name='DemonSlayer' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:10 AM']What Prophecy series?
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The prophecy series is a tale similar in ways but with less criticism on the catholic side one might say.

The premise of the movie is this: In history before humans there was a war in heaven where the angels fougth amongst each other - what if such a war was to happen again?

This movies picks on Gabriel too, what Hollywood has against the ArchAngel Gabriel I have no idea, but it seems to be a re-occuring theme.


The prophecy series has much less special effects, but there are a few ideas that make you think about God, Angels, and religion in general. It does not specifically refer to any given faith. It does not contradict basic teachings on catholicism, but it does push reality a bit (Hey its a movie, movies do that sometimes).

Look it up at your local blockbuster, I am certain they have one or two. (PS; the first was the best in my opinion, the sequals just dont measure up)

[Didacus]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Jul 25 2005, 12:51 AM']I saw this film, and wanted to throw a can at the end of this flick, it just plain, barfs on Catholicism, and praises demonology, satan worship and such.
This film is terrible.
[snip]  film is Anti-Christian. Period. [/b]
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Well, you said pretty much what I had to say... only I was trying to say it a little nicer-like... but I love your attitude!

[Sirklawd]

few things.

ya, it screws up catholic theology alot

did anyone else laugh when keanu reeve's character threatened to send the demon to heaven as punishment. and the demon was all crying at the thought. such a funny and original situation. (yes, i know keanu reeves character couldnt possibly do that, but it was cool because keanu reeves character knew that too, and was like "im just kidding, stupid demon, i cant do that"..and ofcourse the demon wouldnt know that. anyway, it was my favorite part of the movie.

finally, whats UP with literary works going to town with the "Spear of Longinus". The mythos of this spear "that killed Jesus" has been in MANY various works. does anyone know where the idea that this spear is powerful came from? like.. most of the time it's handled alright. ya, they totally screw up the facts with Jesus's death, but on the flip side they proclaim the spear to be powerful - which implies that Jesus (in the eyes of the literary work) true to be the Son of God. and, after so much anti-God/God doesnt exist in all of movies/literature it's kiiinda nice to see some sorta reference to Jesus's godliness. least that is what i grew up thinking. i suppose I shouldnt be satisfied with this scraps, and demand my "theological" movies to be 100% acurate.

[Oik]

i think that holloywood wouldn't really pursue any aspect of Catholicism that isn't "cool" to them.

You have priest in movies, but they are either wussy, perverse, adulterers, action packed heroes, or are questioning thier faith and/or vows.

Any religious ariticles are most certainly "talsmans," to ward off evil. In some cases, there is an attempt to explain this as what makes these articles powerful is not the aritlces themselves, but the faith of the people who possess them (which isn't really too far off in a practical sense---See Saint Pio's mention of The Rosary as the weapon and its beads being bullets).


Constantine is very gulity of this kind of thing.

What can you say though, it's Hollywood's idea of Catholicism.


It's offensive because is purposesly tries to re-present or fictionalize the Truth. Art must portray what is already there, not redefine what is True.



Constanitine employs the same logic as Dan Brown, who used reall things and religion. He then redefined what these were, telling a pure ficitional history and exgesis of already existing things.

This really doesn't make a good story.

[Didacus]

I agree... 100% theological accuracy would be great, and educational... With Constantine the educational value is limited to a 'spot the fallacies' game.

I don't know much about the spear... but this other myth I belive came out in other movies that I often questionned. The myth goes that a man, a roman, was punished by God for taking part in Jesus' torture before He was sent to the cross. his punishement was to live forever, immortal in the flesh and on earth. The movies I seen that reference this 'myth' picture him as a man trying to find ways to die, to be released from life on earth -even if it means going to hell?!?!?

Does anyone know about this 'myth' and its origin.. i search a few places and books but never found any concrete reference to it... just wondering.