Archangel Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 [quote name='Monoxide' date='Apr 6 2005, 07:26 PM'] I am not saying that the visions were false, but I am saying that even if there were divine sent, they would have had some human stain mixed in... [/quote] "Human stain" such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoxide Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Are you Jesus? Are you perfect? There is nothing that we can do that our Master couldn't do better, hence the Human Stain. I would even go as far to say as when you are inspired by our Master you are still human, so you would make human mistakes, clumsyness who knows. Mabye little girl from the Fatima embellished her story a bit to make it more extreme? I cannot see our Mother giving a young girl images of severed priest's heads floating around in a vat of acid, can you? As a youth I discovered something. When I prayed, it was when I was in need, sadly I was selfish, anyway, the prayer generally came through but it would often take many weeks, months or even years, but when they came through, they would come differantly than I expected, often with an unseen or even malicious cost. As a youth I reasoned that as our Master is not present directly on earth, the devil was tainting our Master's influence on us, but I realize that it is humanity itself that taints our Masters influence. It is our nature to be a bit selfish, and in our selfishness we could possibly corrupt any influence our Lord and Master has to give us. Arg I am losing coherancy again. -Monoxide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 So what "human stain" occurred at Fatima? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoxide Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 "Mabye little girl from the Fatima embellished her story a bit to make it more extreme? I cannot see our Mother giving a young girl images of severed priest's heads floating around in a vat of acid, can you?" Could it be that the girl was insulted by a priest in some way or another, so she saw his head burning in a pit of acid while on some herself? I do not know. I am not judging the Fatima visions, but I am not condoning them either. I have no right to say that a specific part was tainted, but I used the above as an example how it might happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 [quote name='Monoxide' date='Apr 7 2005, 05:45 AM']"Mabye little girl from the Fatima embellished her story a bit to make it more extreme? I cannot see our Mother giving a young girl images of severed priest's heads floating around in a vat of acid, can you?" Could it be that the girl was insulted by a priest in some way or another, so she saw his head burning in a pit of acid while on some herself? I do not know. I am not judging the Fatima visions, but I am not condoning them either. I have no right to say that a specific part was tainted, but I used the above as an example how it might happen.[/quote] Did it happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoxide Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 How should I know? I am saying that there was a chance that it could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archangel Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Were there any "embellishments" from the seers in Fatima? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoxide Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Personally? I would say that I do not think the Lord's Mother would send a vision of hell to a bunch of pre pubescent children. (7 8 and 9 years old?) That is probably just me though, so well, I dont know? I didn't see them? So how could I honestly know? How could you? shway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole8223 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 We can't look at what WE think is right (i.e. not showing hell to young children), but we must have faith, that's #1. The only thing we have any right to look at is the fruits of the apparitions. From both Fatima and Lourdes, there are countless healings and conversions taking place daily...I have no doubt....I'm not going to question God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 When the Church approves a "private revelation" it simply means that there is nothing contrary to the Catholic faith within it, but a Catholic is not required to believe in any private revelations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Fatima was a bit different from private revelation. Many onlookers saw Mary. 70,000 went on to see the Miracle of the Sun. That is not private revelation, unless, a whole city is private. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 (edited) [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='May 10 2005, 08:06 PM'] Fatima was a bit different from private revelation. Many onlookers saw Mary. 70,000 went on to see the Miracle of the Sun. That is not private revelation, unless, a whole city is private. God bless, Mikey [/quote] Still, in theological terms, Fatima is considered private revelation. The Church teaches that Public Revelation (what is necessary for our salvation to beleive) ended with John. The Church does not require Catholics to beleive in the revelations at Fatima. Edited May 11, 2005 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahB Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 I find it awfully hard not to believe in it, though. I mean....not only did 70,000 including a whole lot of skeptics see it, but the Church has declared two of the children saints(or at least blesseds....someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the last person to see Mary at Fatima, Sr Lucy, just recently died and I'm sure will be declared a saint soon enough. With that much stock put into the visions at Fatima by the Church I think it's hard for any Catholic to not believe them. I'm not saying anything aganist any Catholic who might not believe it it. Just that I find it hard not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 [quote name='SarahB' date='May 11 2005, 02:23 PM'] I find it awfully hard not to believe in it, though. I mean....not only did 70,000 including a whole lot of skeptics see it, but the Church has declared two of the children saints(or at least blesseds....someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the last person to see Mary at Fatima, Sr Lucy, just recently died and I'm sure will be declared a saint soon enough. With that much stock put into the visions at Fatima by the Church I think it's hard for any Catholic to not believe them. I'm not saying anything aganist any Catholic who might not believe it it. Just that I find it hard not to. [/quote] I'm not saying I don't believe in it, I'm merely pointing out that the Church does not consider it public revelation, and therefore does not [b]require[/b] Catholics to beleive in it or any other private revelations. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahB Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Oh, I know you're not. I hope what I said didn't come across as me saying you didn't believe in the visions. And I know the Church doesn't require anyone to believe in them, which is fine. I just find it hard to see why some people don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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