Praying For The Dead

[Monica]

Here's an article that sums up perfectly what i believe about purgatory. Or, better said, i believed before cracks started to appear.

Though there is no biblical basis for purgatory, there is a strong philosophical need for it in Roman Catholic theology. The Church views salvation as the objective adornment or beautification of the soul. It is a process which starts at baptism through which sanctifying grace is initially infused. This makes the soul holy and inherently pleasing to God. Other sacraments and good works further justify the soul and make it increasingly attractive to God. The goal is to transform the essential character of the soul into something which is in itself objectively good. It is, therefore, only reasonable to require the complete cleansing of every vestige of sin before the soul can come into the presence of God. Purgatory, therefore, is the logical extension of the Church’s process of salvation.

Purgatory is also an integral element of the Roman Catholic penitential system. According to the Church, every sin credits temporal punishment to the sinner’s account. Acts of penance, suffering, and indulgences debit this account. Since sinners may not make full satisfaction for sin in this life, purgatory in the afterlife is necessary to balance the ledger.

Finally, the Church uses purgatory to motivate Catholics to live righteously. If there were no purgatory, the reasoning goes, people would go on sinning without fear.

Biblical salvation, on the other hand, has no need of a place such as purgatory. Biblical salvation does not rely on the works and sufferings of sinners, but solely upon Christ. The Lord Jesus "made purification of sins" (Hebrews 1:3) on the cross. His blood can cleanse the vilest sinner (Hebrews 9:14). There is no temporal punishment remaining for which the believer must atone; Jesus paid it all: "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" (1 John 2:2).

Biblical salvation has no need for a place such as purgatory where the soul supposedly becomes objectively beautiful to God. Rather, it is rooted in God’s imputation of His own perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21). Biblical salvation brings a "righteousness that is by faith from first to last" (Romans 1:17 (NIV)). The sinner places his trust in Christ for justification. He walks by faith and through the enablement of the Spirit lives righteously. Nevertheless, he has no hope of ever being personally and objectively good enough in himself to stand in the presence of God. He trusts in Christ alone for salvation (Philippians 3:7-9).

Rather than focusing on the good works and suffering of the individual, biblical salvation emphasizes the perfect work of Christ. He is sufficient to make sinners "stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy" (Jude 24). God no longer looks at the person as a defiled sinner, but sees him only in Christ (Ephesians 1:1-14), "holy and blameless before Him" (Ephesians 1:4).

Finally, biblical salvation involves a new birth that results in a new creation (John 3:7; 2 Corinthians 2:17; Galatians 6:17; Ephesians 2:15). A born-again Christian wants to obey God. He is motivated by the love of Christ, not the fear of painful retribution (2 Corinthians 5:14; Romans 8:15).

Do Catholics Still Believe in Purgatory?

Many modern Catholics think of purgatory as a relic from the Dark Ages, which they would just as soon forget. Some Catholics even believe that purgatory is no longer a Roman Catholic doctrine.

Despite popular opinion, however, purgatory is still an official dogma of the Roman Catholic Church and an essential part of the Roman Catholic plan of salvation. The Church affirmed the existence of purgatory at each of the last three ecumenical councils: Trent, Vatican I, and Vatican II. The latter council described purgatory as a place where the souls of the dead make expiation "in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments." According to Vatican II, "in purgatory the souls of those ‘who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions’ are cleansed after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt." The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes purgatory as place of "cleansing fire."[1031]

Belief in the existence of purgatory is also expressed at every Mass. During the Liturgy of the Eucharist, prayers are offered for the dead. Usually the Mass itself is also offered for someone suffering in purgatory. The person’s name is announced or published in the Sunday bulletin. Each year, in fact, on the anniversary of the death of the last pope, the present pope offers Mass for the souls of his two predecessors who are, presumably, still suffering in purgatory.

Adapted from The Gospel According to Rome by James G. McCarthy, Harvest House Publishers, © 1995. This article is indexed to the numbered paragraphs of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The paragraph numbers are in brackets.

Notes:

i. Council of Trent, session 25, "Decree Concerning Purgatory."

ii. First Vatican Council, session 2, "Profession of Faith."

iii. Second Vatican Council, "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church" no. 49 and no. 51.

iv. Second Vatican Council, "Sacred Liturgy," "Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences," no. 2.

v. Second Vatican Council, "Sacred Liturgy," "Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences," no. 3.

vi. Pope John Paul II offers Mass for John Paul I and Paul VI on September 28, the anniversary of the death of John Paul I ("The Lord Gives Us Confidence." L’Osservatore Romano, October 7, 1992, p. 1.)

[littleflower+JMJ]

To deny Purgatory is to deny the truth of the Bible....

1 Peter 3:19    Matt. 12:32  Luke 12:59 2 Macc. 12:43-46    Rev 20:13-15 

Rev. 21:27  1 Cor 3:15 Isaiah 6:6-7

ironmonk always hits the nail right on the head.

read his post over. not just catholics believe in such monica.

thanks ironmonk!

:D

[jmjtina]

May I ask Monica, where is that article from?

Edited November 2, 2003 by jmjtina

[Monica]

yes. especiallly with scripture.

what have you concluded monica?

I'm trying not to be hasty. I'm reading slowly and pondering.

[Monica]

May I ask Monica, where is that article from?

does it matter?? :blink:

[littleflower+JMJ]

:ph34r:

[jmjtina]

Sorry, found it! ;)

[littleflower+JMJ]

:ph34r:

[jmjtina]

James G. McCarthy is an Anti-Catholic. Enough said.

Monica, you are on the right track. Keep the thoughts and reflections coming! I know it can be tough with school AND this!!!! B)

I give you props, b/c takes alot of time just to read! (Which is why I procrasinate in almost everything! )

Edited November 2, 2003 by jmjtina

[Monica]

:ph34r:

:huh:

[Monica]

James G. McCarthy is an Anti-Catholic. Enough said. 

Monica, you are on the right track.  Keep the thoughts and reflections coming! I know it can be tough with school AND this!!!!  B)

I give you props, b/c takes alot of time just to read! (Which is why I procrasinate in almost everything! )

I said this article expresses perfectly what i believe about purgatory. I'm asking you what you think.

Saying it's anti-catholic won't make the points in it go away.

Ya know what I'm sayin'??

[littleflower+JMJ]

careful.

im a black belt.

in religion that is.

:P

[jmjtina]

I said this article expresses perfectly what i believe about purgatory. I'm asking you what you think.

If it expresses what you perfectly believe about purgatory it is perfectly anti-catholic.

back to square one. :lol:

Edited November 2, 2003 by jmjtina

[Monica]

I said before that i was vrought up in a very anti-catholic community, and that it's hard to shake off. It's reflected in my beliefs.

[littleflower+JMJ]

I said before that i was vrought up in a very anti-catholic community, and that it's hard to shake off. It's reflected in my beliefs.

its okay. many of us had to fight thru anti-catholic slob.......in fact thats what we're doing right now! :D

we're proof that one can learn the catholic side of things!

and find the truth!!

;)

[jmjtina]

What do I think? The point is that it is anti-Catholic. translation: Full of lies.

Adapted from The Gospel According to Rome by James G. McCarthy, Harvest House Publishers, © 1995.

This book is written by a famous Catholic Hater.

Saying it's anti-catholic won't make the points in it go away

There are no points if they are outright lies.

:ph34r:

Ninja Vanish!

[jmjtina]

I said before that i was vrought up in a very anti-catholic community, and that it's hard to shake off. It's reflected in my beliefs.

No prob, bob.

thank you Monica. You keep asking and we'll keep answering. We want you to know the TRUTH about our faith, not some evil lie. Again, I would like to stress it isn't about your opinion vs. our opinion, but Truth.

:ph34r:

Ninja Vanish! (adapted from a Bruce Lee movie!)

Edited November 2, 2003 by jmjtina

[cmotherofpirl]

Wait til morning when we are more awake :)

[ironmonk]

Monica,

Please read my page that I have dedicated to Ian Paisley...

http://www.ianpaisley.net

Again, please go up and read my entire post.

You've been told wrong about Purgatory.

If purgatory does not exist then the bible is worthless because it's in the bible, and it was taught by the Jews, and it was believed by every Christian until after the deformation.

God Bless, Your Servant in Christ

ironmonk

Edited November 2, 2003 by ironmonk

[Uncle Gus]

Monica, with the greatest respect, I suggest you try to learn what Catholics believe from Catholics.