Catholic or Parish

[mamasboy1210]

They have to be able to get in. In some of these posts it sounds like the catholic church are only for the chosen. Its for everybody. It sounds like Puritans and the elect.

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='mamasboy1210' date='Mar 18 2005, 09:24 AM'] It sounds like Puritans and the elect. [/quote]
Ah, the good old Puritans. People so uptight, the English kicked them out.

Edited March 18, 2005 by RandomProddy

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

One cannot obtain heaven if they reject the Truth and are aware that they are rejecting the Truth.

[Aloysius]

it depends on if they are culpably ignorant or inculpably ignorant of the Truth of the Church. Someone might be ignorant by their own fault that the Church is necessary for salvation. It is too simple to say whether or not they know, though I know that's the common explanation. It's why they don't know. Is it not their fault that they don't know? Then they have a chance following the natural law written on the hearts of all men in which God through his extraordinary mercy, grace, and power might save them so long as they do not have some other mortal sin upon their soul for which they are culpable.

Simply put, we have a sacred right and duty to evangelize the world. It is quite possible that every single person who is not Catholic is culpably ignorant and God will judge them accordingly. Their culpability for their ignorance is completely and absolutely unknown to us. Did God send them their chance and they rejected it and still do not know that the Church is necessary for salvation? Then they are on the path to the pit prepared for the devil and his angels. How can you know that though? Perhaps the person God intended to send to them in the first place chose not to. The culpability lies upon that person.

God alone judges souls. We spread Catholocism as it is the one and only path to salvation.

[Scofizzle]

I', pretty sure that the basis of this goes back pretty far. Those who are not Catholic obviously do not belong to the one true faith, but that does not mean they cannot go to heaven. While a protestant church was founded on a heretical basis that does not mean that all pretestants are heretics. Those who are part of of a protestant church still have a chance for salvation so as long as they have not denied Christ's church by any fault of their own.

[StPiusVPrayForUs]

All "gods" that are not true aren't gods. They are demons.

Edited March 18, 2005 by StPiusVPrayForUs

[sweetpea316]

Oh boy, this topic can be a touchy one...

But, I myself, even though I am not a member of the Catholic Church, have no doubt that I am not going to hell when I die. And its soo wonderful and reassuring to know that...

[Aloysius]

The first Pope to call protestants "separated Christians' was Leo XIII.

Protestantism is a different case than pagans. For why, let us turn to Hillaire Belloc, great Catholic historian and writer of the early 20th century.

From his essay "The New Paganism"

"We call Paganism an absence of the Christian revelation. That is why we distinguish between paganism and the different heresies; that is why we give the name of Christain to imperfect and distroted Christians, who only possess a part of Catholic truth and usually add to it doctrines which are contradictory of Catholic truth. Moreover, the word "Christian," though so vague as to be dangerous, has this much reality about it, that there is something different between the general atmosphere or savor of any society or person or literature which can be called Christian at all and those which are wholly lacking in any part of Christian doctrine. For a Christian man or society is one that has some part of Catholocism left in him. But when every shed of Catholocism is lost we call that state of things "Unchristian."

The Protestant heresies hold on to the certainb asic truths they took from the Catholic Church. This is the point at which Divine Revelation has touched them and set them apart from paganism so far as to prevent them from ending up with demons as gods.

[StPiusVPrayForUs]

"Nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, 1442)

"There is indeed one universal (Catholic) church of the faithful, outside of which nobody at all is saved." Fourth Lateran Council, #1: Confession of Faith.

"...those Christian nations which have unhappily fallen away from Mother (Catholic) Church to turn once more to her in whom lies all hope of eternal salvation." Pope Benedict XV, Spiritus Paraclitus (On St. Jerome), Encyclical promulgated on September 15, 1920, #68.

"Whoever, therefore, have adverse and contrary opinions the Church disapproves and anathematizes and declares to be foreign to the Christian body which is the Church." Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino, Bull promulgated on February 4, 1441 (Florentine style).

"For it has been delivered to us, that there is one God, and one Christ, and one hope, and one faith, and one (Catholic) Church, and one baptism ordained only in the one Church, from which unity whosoever will depart must needs be found with heretics." St. Cyprian, The Epistles of Cyprian, Epistle LXXIII, #11.

"The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved." St. Gregory the Great (Quoted by Pope Gregory XVI in Summo Iugiter Studio (On Mixed Marriages), Encyclical promulgated on May 27, 1832, #5.

"If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the (Catholic) Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema." The Council of Trent, Sixth Session, Canon XX

"Let such as these take counsel with themselves, and realize that they can in no wise be counted among the children of God, unless they take Christ Jesus as their Brother, and at the same time the (Catholic) Church as their mother." Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (On the Unity of the Church), Encyclical promulgated on June 29, 1896, #16.
Looks like there is no new spring time with these Saints.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

I don't know if non-Catholics go to hell, but I do know bad spellers must go to purgatory before they can get to heaven.

[Honour]

Hmmm. If my beliefs as a protestant are correct...I am going to heaven, and nothing can change that. If Catholicism is right and I, after having searched, turn away from the Church am going to go to hell...Well it looks like being Catholic is a no lose situation, while being protestant could have eternal reprecussions.
I know that ultimately what I believe must be becuase I believe it is the absolute truth, not just to "cover all my bases" but I can't help it if this is how I think sometimes.

[Aloysius]

SPVPrayForUs, I 100% agree with all the quotes you just provided yet still understand that this sin of remaining outside the True Church like all mortal sins kills the grace of the man who is CULPABLE for this sin. You know all about culpability, correct? For some reason, however, people like you never even think to apply culpability to this. People are condemned to hell for culpable mortal sin. it is a mortal sin to remain outside of the One True Church which is necessary for salvation. Is the person culpable for it? That is for God to judge upon the person's death.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Honour' date='Mar 18 2005, 10:46 PM'] Hmmm. If my beliefs as a protestant are correct...I am going to heaven, and nothing can change that. If Catholicism is right and I, after having searched, turn away from the Church am going to go to hell...Well it looks like being Catholic is a no lose situation, while being protestant could have eternal reprecussions.
I know that ultimately what I believe must be becuase I believe it is the absolute truth, not just to "cover all my bases" but I can't help it if this is how I think sometimes. [/quote]
that's human nature. in the act of contrition we say we are sorry because we "fear the loss of heaven and the pains of hell" but MOST OF ALL because we have offended Him, Our God, who is all good and deserving of all our love. Christ knows we are imperfect and that our intentions are not always perfect. But just like Pascal's wager is a starting point towards theism, this wager can be a starting point towards Catholocism. The Church is what Christ instituted for the purpose of saving men. It is the only thing that exists on this planet you can look to for His Salvation.

[cmotherofpirl]

THis is open mic, not debate, so its getting moved. And if it starts catholic vs catholic, it willl be closed.

[Honour]

oh bummer...well debate table is kinda scary. I have to form arguments :thinking: from suffiecnt reasons, actually know what I'm talking about, refer to a bunch of books I haven't read yet...I prefer to just open my mouth and let stuff spill out...my brain hurts already...and I bet you are even upset that you have to read a post like this in Debate table.... are emoticons even allowed in here? :nono:

[Brother Adam]

Anyone can take something which is infallible out of context StPius. Protestants do it all the time with the Bible. If you do not understand something with the intent the Church teaches it with, then it becomes your own personal heresy.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='mamasboy1210' date='Mar 17 2005, 08:21 PM'] People keep telling me that the church is wrong becuause if your not a Catholic you can not go to heaven. Im not sure. I love my faith but I believe if your a christian you go to heaven and if you live a good life you can go to heaven. [/quote]
Any man who knows that membership in the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation, and who then either fails to become Catholic, or if he is already a Catholic, fails to remain in communion with the Church, cannot be saved.

Now, if a man, through no fault of his own, is ignorant of the true religion, but still cooperates with the graces he is given, which necessarily flow to him from the Catholic Church, he [i]may[/i] be saved inspite of his ignorance. In this situation, his salvation is still a gift of God in Christ and through the Catholic Church even though he is invincibly ignorant of this fact.

[Guest JeffCR07]

amen