THE NOMINATION THREAD

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]We can not judge the persons rite but how well he will rule under God and what God wants. I say it's possible.[/quote]

But that simply reduces Eastern Catholicism to a different set of Liturgical rites. Eastern Catholicism has a completely different set of theological and spiritual traditions, not just Liturgical rites.

[Noel's angel]

I would have said Cardinal Keith O'Brien, currently in Scotland, but born in my hometown of Ballycastle, until i read this article:

[quote]Scotland Cardinal Keith O'Brien Approves of Active Homosexuals as Catholic Teachers

SCOTLAND, March 29, 2005, (LifeSiteNews.com) - Scotland's Cardinal Keith O'Brien has publicly contradicted fellow Bishop Joseph Devine's stand that the presence of homosexual teachers in Catholic schools would be incompatible with their mission. The public contradiction was greeted favorably by education authorities who disagreed with Bishop Devine's statement, but sent shockwaves throughout the world's Catholics.

Bishop Devine, president of the Catholic Education Service, was quoted in The Scotman of March 21st as saying: ""Being homosexual would not at all be compatible with the charter. It would cut across the whole moral vision enshrined in the charter. It would be offering a lifestyle that is incompatible with Catholic social teaching." His position has resulted in a number of education officials denouncing the statement.

Cardinal O'Brien, head of the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland, made his comments on Sunday saying: "If there happens to be a gay teacher and he does happen to be living with a partner, that's their personal, private life. I don't see it as a problem." The Cardinal did admit, however, that it might cause a moral dilemma if the individual in question was to criticize and contradict the Teachings of the Church while teaching in a Catholic school.

For John-Paul Meenan, the executive director of a Catholic Liberal Arts college in north-eastern Ontario, who hails from Scotland, Cardinal O'Brien's statement was particularly disturbing.  Meenan, who runs Our Lady Seat of Wisdom Academy, told LifeSiteNews.com that the Catechism of the Catholic Church holds homosexual acts to be gravely immoral and the inclination to homosexual sex to be 'objectively disordered'.  He was shocked that the Cardinal had issued the statement.

"I hate to see the Catholic schools in the land of my birth being infiltrated by a homosexual agenda," Meenan told LifeSiteNews.com.

Campaign Life Catholic spokesman Surresh Dominic wondered if Cardinal O'Brien would be equally approving of pedophiles or polygamists being teachers at Catholic schools.  "After all," said Dominic, "the Catholic Church teaches polygamy and pedophilia are sexual aberrations as is homosexuality."[/quote]

[url="http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05032904.html"]http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05032904.html[/url]

kinda worried me and made me think that maybe he isn't such a good candidate afterall...

[JP2Iloveyou]

Noel's Angel,

That surprises me about Cardinal O'Brien. Perhaps it was taken out of context. That is why I don't like all this speculating and calling some cardinals liberal and some conservative, etc. The fact is that unless you know the man personally, you really don't know where he stands on a lot of things. The media always distorts positions to favor their views. For example, earlier this year, many people were criticizing Cardinal McCarrick without ever having met the man. It was complete and total speculation without one shred of evidence to back up what they were saying. I know Cardinal McCarrick personally. His right-hand man in Washington was my spiritual director for awhile and I have been priviledged to meet his emminence on at least three occasions. The fact is, he is not what everyone was making him out to be. And again, the Holy Spirit will decide. Whoever He chooses will be whoever is right for the Church right now, whether that is Cardinal Ratzinger, O'Brien, Sodano, or someone else, the Holy Spirit is in charge. Saying what and who we want is really irrelevant. God works based off of his plan, not ours. If he chooses Cardinal Arinze to serve as Pope, great; if he chooses Cardinal Daneels to serve as pope, great. Sorry to rant, I just don't think that this point can be driven home enough.

[BurkeFan]

[quote name='JP2Iloveyou' date='Apr 16 2005, 01:39 PM'] Noel's Angel,

That surprises me about Cardinal O'Brien. Perhaps it was taken out of context. That is why I don't like all this speculating and calling some cardinals liberal and some conservative, etc. The fact is that unless you know the man personally, you really don't know where he stands on a lot of things. The media always distorts positions to favor their views. For example, earlier this year, many people were criticizing Cardinal McCarrick without ever having met the man. It was complete and total speculation without one shred of evidence to back up what they were saying. I know Cardinal McCarrick personally. His right-hand man in Washington was my spiritual director for awhile and I have been priviledged to meet his emminence on at least three occasions. The fact is, he is not what everyone was making him out to be. And again, the Holy Spirit will decide. Whoever He chooses will be whoever is right for the Church right now, whether that is Cardinal Ratzinger, O'Brien, Sodano, or someone else, the Holy Spirit is in charge. Saying what and who we want is really irrelevant. God works based off of his plan, not ours. If he chooses Cardinal Arinze to serve as Pope, great; if he chooses Cardinal Daneels to serve as pope, great. Sorry to rant, I just don't think that this point can be driven home enough. [/quote]
I rather agree with what you said. I'm friends with Archbishop Burke, and so much of what goes around is just a blatant lie. It doesn't even border on misinterpretation, it's just plain false.
At the same time, I have had my doubts about Cdl. McCarrick, but as to not add more unfounded speculation, I shall keep those to myself.
Yes, the Holy Spirit is purely in charge. It would still be, I think, a good idea to go to Mass on Monday and pray for the Holy Spirit, and Our Lady, to guide the Cardinals.

[JP2Iloveyou]

[quote name='BurkeFan' date='Apr 16 2005, 03:09 PM'] It would still be, I think, a good idea to go to Mass on Monday and pray for the Holy Spirit, and Our Lady, to guide the Cardinals. [/quote]
Oh, most definitely. On Mondays here at our seminary, we join the rest of our university community for a large Mass at the university chapel and pray for the conversion of our campus, but I suspect that we will especially offer that Mass for the conclave. By the time we begin, it will be 2:00 p.m. Rome time, about the time they will begin the conclave, I believe.

[Noel's angel]

Yeah, i suppose, he seemed like a good guy when he came home, i try not to dwell too much on these articles but you know, i do worry about these things.

[JP2Iloveyou]

I have confidence that Pope John Paul II would not have elevated him to Cardinal if he didn't have confidence in him. If JPII trusts him, then maybe we should.

[Noel's angel]

yeah that's what i thought, but when i read things i get a little put off, but what the heck GO CARDINAL O'BRIEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[argent_paladin]

I nominate Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger, Archbishop of France.
He might be the first Pope of Jewish origin since Peter. He is given a 10% chance at Tradesport for suceeding (higher than Arinze).

[ironman]

Arinze ..........

[musturde]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 16 2005, 02:42 AM']
But that simply reduces Eastern Catholicism to a different set of Liturgical rites. Eastern Catholicism has a completely different set of theological and spiritual traditions, not just Liturgical rites. [/quote]
Not exactly. Their Theological traditions are about the exact same. The only differences are small t's. The liturgy and some small traditions are just a difference. I don't think it'd be neccisarily bad, people just don't like the change. The spiritual traditions may be different but is he going to enforce them as Pope? I doubt it. If he does then he can teach people, they're not major differences. I think people can cope with an aramaic or Greek mass as much as they used to with the Tridentine since people basicly don't understand any of them. The traditions of the Pope wouldn't make a bad influence on how he addressed things. The only thing I can see wrong is people getting upset because they can't understand the language when they should really be appreciating the tradition. In fact, if the Maronite Cardinal was able to be elected (since he's too old he can't) and was elected, the Mass we do is more traditional than the Tridentine Mass and is in Aramaic. I think it'd be nice to have a little bit of different traditions. It'd unify the Eastern and Western if the Pope did a good job.

[conservativecatholic]

[quote name='musturde' date='Apr 16 2005, 07:54 PM'] Not exactly. Their Theological traditions are about the exact same. The only differences are small t's. The liturgy and some small traditions are just a difference. I don't think it'd be neccisarily bad, people just don't like the change. The spiritual traditions may be different but is he going to enforce them as Pope? I doubt it. If he does then he can teach people, they're not major differences. I think people can cope with an aramaic or Greek mass as much as they used to with the Tridentine since people basicly don't understand any of them. The traditions of the Pope wouldn't make a bad influence on how he addressed things. The only thing I can see wrong is people getting upset because they can't understand the language when they should really be appreciating the tradition. In fact, if the Maronite Cardinal was able to be elected (since he's too old he can't) and was elected, the Mass we do is more traditional than the Tridentine Mass and is in Aramaic. I think it'd be nice to have a little bit of different traditions. It'd unify the Eastern and Western if the Pope did a good job. [/quote]
I agree. I think it would be nice to fully breathe with both lungs of the Church. The Eastern Church is truly awesome!

[argent_paladin]

I would also like to nominate Ivan Cardinal Dias, Archbishop of Mumbai (Bombay), India.

[Guest Eremite]

[quote]Their Theological traditions are about the exact same.[/quote]

Not at all. Their doctrinal faith, of course, is the same as Latin Catholics. But their theological heritage, and the way they view things, is very much different. Latin theology operates within the framework of its scholastic heritage. Eastern theology does not share the same heritage. If Liturgical rite were the only difference between Eastern and Western Catholics, then there would be no problem. But the Patriarch of the West and the Bishop of Rome needs to serve those with a Latin theological tradition primarily. An Eastern Bishop could not do that.

If the Pope were not Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West, I would love to see an Easterner fill the office. But he is, and there's no getting around that.

Edited April 17, 2005 by Eremite

[musturde]

[quote name='Eremite' date='Apr 17 2005, 09:33 AM']
Not at all. Their doctrinal faith, of course, is the same as Latin Catholics. But their theological heritage, and the way they view things, is very much different. Latin theology operates within the framework of its scholastic heritage. Eastern theology does not share the same heritage. If Liturgical rite were the only difference between Eastern and Western Catholics, then there would be no problem. But the Patriarch of the West and the Bishop of Rome needs to serve those with a Latin theological tradition primarily. An Eastern Bishop could not do that.

If the Pope were not Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West, I would love to see an Easterner fill the office. But he is, and there's no getting around that. [/quote]
The theological views are different but that doesnt mean they don't know how the Latin Rite views things. Give me an example that would hinder his decisions? I mean, if the Pope's Latin Rite, he wouldn't be able to work well with the Eastern Rite Churches. We're all united.