PedroX Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Jason, You are mostly right here, but wrong to separate faith and grace. St. Thomas teaches that faith is infused by the Holy Spirit, even prior to conscious belief. If one is truly seeking truth, I recommend praying for faith. Or, take the bet. Live for 1 year as if you did believe. Live as though it were true. You have to take it seriously, but you don't have to believe anything. Just act for one year as if you really did believe. (it might help if you could get your hands on a Miraculous Medal as well!) peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 As they say in CL, to believe in Jesus Christ, you need to have an encounter with the Christian Event, the Christian Fact, that corresponds to you, to your innermost being. Once you have an experience like that, that shakes your world and helps you see it all the more clearer and wakes you up to not a new reality, but the one you've been living minus the ideas that kept you from meeting it face-to-face. It will take a solid event in the present for you to believe in Jesus Christ, or anything for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I think God finds us more than we find God. Granted we have to be open to it so we are looking for Him in that way. But I can almost promise that our plans for finding God won't correspond with how God chooses to reveal Himself. We plan, God laughs. I think you'll se something so vivid one of these days---you'll never see it coming in a million years, but you'll be like "what just happened?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='PedroX' date='Apr 13 2005, 10:28 PM'] Jason, You are mostly right here, but wrong to separate faith and grace. St. Thomas teaches that faith is infused by the Holy Spirit, even prior to conscious belief. If one is truly seeking truth, I recommend praying for faith. Or, take the bet. Live for 1 year as if you did believe. Live as though it were true. You have to take it seriously, but you don't have to believe anything. Just act for one year as if you really did believe. (it might help if you could get your hands on a Miraculous Medal as well!) peace... [/quote] I agree, you put it better, I wasn't seperating the two, faith is indeed both a gift and a grace from God and should be prayed for! Pax Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 So can we establish a prerequisite of faith and belief before you can experience this transcendental moment with god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 The prerequisite to be able to recognize an event, a fact, something beautiful... is that, as Luigi Giussani calls it, a "religious sense." You gotta have that passion inside of you to find the truth, the beauty, the justice, the good, etc. You have to want to stop at nothing to find this happiness. You have to be true to thyself, not replacing your ideas with other people's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 13 2005, 10:53 PM'] So can we establish a prerequisite of faith and belief before you can experience this transcendental moment with god? [/quote] Faith is a gift, we must pray for it, and pray that we don't lose it! God puts into the heart of every man and women the desire to find where he or she comes from. So you search. For us that already know the Truth, it's our job to teach this One Truth and proclaim it to everyone. Faith and God go hand and hand. He wants us to trust Him. That takes faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Yeah, where's BLAZEr? He could help us out with this. Yeah, once you have taht desire to find out REALITY, you realize that reason can only take you so far. You must be a beggar in front of God, in front of TRUTH, if you really wanted to attempt to comprehend it, because you realize that it must take something outside of your own abilities and limits to realize this, to attain this Truth, this happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 13 2005, 02:12 PM'] I can give you an Athiests perspective. My whole life has been dedicated to seeking the light of truth, if you will. God and wanting to be closer to this power was my whole lifes journey. Had it not been for one person whom I fell in love with and married I would most definitely be living a monastic life. A decision out of love has led me to a life I never imagined. [b] Now I am here, an Atheist. One who denounces the very thing I onced swore my whole life to. The thing is - I do not discount a creator. Not at all. I only chose not believe in theistic beliefs [/b] because I could not reconcile that my choices in beliefs needed the foundation of faith. We must believe that these men, or whomever you choose to follow, were the ones who only truth revealed itself fully to. We must have faith that these bearers of light, are indeed the messengers of truth. I beseech you to question what you believe, and to be true to thyself, whatever the outcome of that is. I wish you luck. [/quote] Mel, I'm a little confused. Are you an Atheist, or non-religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 06:42 AM'] Mel, I'm a little confused. Are you an Atheist, or non-religious? [/quote] I'm an Atheist, meaning simply I lack theistic beliefs. Strong Atheistism asserts that there is absolutely no creator, and that is not my position. [quote]If you look up 'atheism' in the dictionary, you will probably find it defined as the belief that there is no God. Certainly many people understand atheism in this way. Yet many atheists do not, and this is not what the term means if one considers it from the point of view of its Greek roots. In Greek 'a' means 'without' or 'not' and 'theos' means 'god.' From this standpoint an atheist would simply be someone without a belief in God, [b]not necessarily someone who believes that God does not exist[/b]. According to its Greek roots, then, atheism is a negative view, characterized by the absence of belief in God. [Michael Martin,[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 12:53 AM'] So can we establish a prerequisite of faith and belief before you can experience this transcendental moment with god? [/quote] No. God can zap you anytime he chooses. Read C.S.Lewis's [i]Surprised by Joy[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) Mel, Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold? Edited April 14, 2005 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 11:00 AM'] Mel, Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold? [/quote] All across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 11:00 AM'] Mel, Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold? [/quote] There's pretty much only one, isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnsspivey Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 08:36 AM'] I'm an Atheist, meaning simply I lack theistic beliefs. Strong Atheistism asserts that there is absolutely no creator, and that is not my position. [/quote] Tangential, but: How does one not believe in a supreme being, but still allow that a supreme being exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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