What does it take to believe in jesus christ?

[Antonius]

The prerequisite to be able to recognize an event, a fact, something beautiful... is that, as Luigi Giussani calls it, a "religious sense."

You gotta have that passion inside of you to find the truth, the beauty, the justice, the good, etc. You have to want to stop at nothing to find this happiness. You have to be true to thyself, not replacing your ideas with other people's.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 13 2005, 10:53 PM'] So can we establish a prerequisite of faith and belief before you can experience this transcendental moment with god? [/quote]
Faith is a gift, we must pray for it, and pray that we don't lose it!

God puts into the heart of every man and women the desire to find where he or she comes from.

So you search. For us that already know the Truth, it's our job to teach this One Truth and proclaim it to everyone.

Faith and God go hand and hand. He wants us to trust Him. That takes faith.

[Antonius]

Yeah, where's BLAZEr? He could help us out with this.

Yeah, once you have taht desire to find out REALITY, you realize that reason can only take you so far.

You must be a beggar in front of God, in front of TRUTH, if you really wanted to attempt to comprehend it, because you realize that it must take something outside of your own abilities and limits to realize this, to attain this Truth, this happiness.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 13 2005, 02:12 PM'] I can give you an Athiests perspective. My whole life has been dedicated to seeking the light of truth, if you will. God and wanting to be closer to this power was my whole lifes journey. Had it not been for one person whom I fell in love with and married I would most definitely be living a monastic life. A decision out of love has led me to a life I never imagined. [b] Now I am here, an Atheist. One who denounces the very thing I onced swore my whole life to. The thing is - I do not discount a creator. Not at all. I only chose not believe in theistic beliefs [/b] because I could not reconcile that my choices in beliefs needed the foundation of faith. We must believe that these men, or whomever you choose to follow, were the ones who only truth revealed itself fully to. We must have faith that these bearers of light, are indeed the messengers of truth. I beseech you to question what you believe, and to be true to thyself, whatever the outcome of that is. I wish you luck. [/quote]
Mel,
I'm a little confused. Are you an Atheist, or non-religious?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 06:42 AM'] Mel,
I'm a little confused. Are you an Atheist, or non-religious? [/quote]
I'm an Atheist, meaning simply I lack theistic beliefs. Strong Atheistism asserts that there is absolutely no creator, and that is not my position.


[quote]If you look up 'atheism' in the dictionary, you will probably find it defined as the belief that there is no God. Certainly many people understand atheism in this way. Yet many atheists do not, and this is not what the term means if one considers it from the point of view of its Greek roots. In Greek 'a' means 'without' or 'not' and 'theos' means 'god.' From this standpoint an atheist would simply be someone without a belief in God, [b]not necessarily someone who believes that God does not exist[/b]. According to its Greek roots, then, atheism is a negative view, characterized by the absence of belief in God.
[Michael Martin,[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 12:53 AM'] So can we establish a prerequisite of faith and belief before you can experience this transcendental moment with god? [/quote]
No.

God can zap you anytime he chooses.
Read C.S.Lewis's [i]Surprised by Joy[/i]

[jasJis]

Mel,
Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold?

Edited April 14, 2005 by jasJis

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 11:00 AM'] Mel,
Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold? [/quote]
All across the board.

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 11:00 AM'] Mel,
Which 'theistic' beliefs do you not hold? [/quote]
There's pretty much only one, isn't there?

[burnsspivey]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 08:36 AM'] I'm an Atheist, meaning simply I lack theistic beliefs. Strong Atheistism asserts that there is absolutely no creator, and that is not my position.


[/quote]
Tangential, but:

How does one not believe in a supreme being, but still allow that a supreme being exists?

[jasJis]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 01:12 PM'] All across the board. [/quote]
C'mon. No you don't. You agree that a God exists. Be intellectually honest with yourself.
Do you believe God created existence?
Do you believe it was done with a purpose?
That's a start.
Or do you just choose to not believe in Religion that may have standards that are inconvenient to you?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='burnsspivey' date='Apr 14 2005, 02:08 PM'] Tangential, but:

How does one not believe in a supreme being, but still allow that a supreme being exists? [/quote]
To not believe in theism encompasses the many gods of those theistic beleifs (allah, yahweh, vishnu). I do not assert that a creator is logically impossible nor have heard arguments convincing enough. Creator is used in the most ambiguous sense and does not necessarily imply sumpremecy.

[MC Just]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 14 2005, 09:23 AM'] No.

God can zap you anytime he chooses.
Read C.S.Lewis's [i]Surprised by Joy[/i] [/quote]
Exactly. He Zapped me.

[Melchisedec]

[quote]
Do you believe God created existence?[/quote]

No. I do not believe Yahweh created existence.

[quote]Do you believe it was done with a purpose?[/quote]

I don't know and neither do you. To me its just as plausible that it happened by accident.

[quote]Or do you just choose to not believe in Religion that may have standards that are inconvenient to you?[/quote]

Common question and my answer is not at all. I feel my standards are far higher than that of the god of the bible. I do not need a commandment to inform me that harming someone is bad. Neither would I ever kill a child if said god ever commanded me to.

[jasJis]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 02:43 PM']
No. I do not believe Yahweh created existence.



I don't know and neither do you. To me its just as plausible that it happened by accident.



Common question and my answer is not at all. I feel my standards are far higher than that of the god of the bible. I do not need a commandment to inform me that harming someone is bad. Neither would I ever kill a child if said god ever commanded me to. [/quote]
Ahhh... I understand a little better.

Is this correct?
-You beleive that existence was created by a superior 'being', but that doesn't mean the 'being' is accurately defined by the 'God' in the Bible, or accurately defined by any 'Theist' set of beliefs.

-You do not beleive that this 'creator being' intended for us particularly to exist. Our existence may just be an accidental side-effect from it's cosmic flatulance that is all of our known and unknown Universe.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 03:47 PM']
[/quote]
[quote]-You beleive that existence was created by a superior 'being', but that doesn't mean the 'being' is accurately defined by the 'God' in the Bible, or accurately defined by any 'Theist' set of beliefs.[/quote]

Close. I dont have a theory on how existence came to be. I dont think anyone knows how existence came to be nor do I need a theory to make myself at ease. As far as a creator goes. I do not believe in the gods of the various religions conjured up by man. At the same time, I do not believe that a creator is logically impossible. A strong atheist would say, a creator of any conception is an impossibility because of X.

[quote]-You do not beleive that this 'creator being' intended for us particularly to exist.  Our existence may just be an accidental side-effect from it's cosmic flatulance that is all of our known and unknown Universe.[/quote]

To me its possible that a creator could be sentient or not-sentient. Could of created directly or indirectly. Has form nor has form. We could be inside the creator or the creator could be inside all matter. When I say creator you conjure up a god that wills things. I merely refer to a possibility of something that could have triggered creation.

[Socrates]

Probably splitting hairs, but it seems, Mel, that technically you'd be considered an agnostic. (An agnostic does not deny the possibility of a God, but denies we can know His existance or anything about Him).

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:06 PM'] A strong atheist would say, a creator of any conception is an impossibility because of X.
[/quote]
A little humor here...

So would you be a soft-serve athiest?

ha...ha...ha?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:15 PM'] Probably splitting hairs, but it seems, Mel, that technically you'd be considered an agnostic. (An agnostic does not deny the possibility of a God, but denies we can know His existance or anything about Him). [/quote]
Agnostic Atheist or by some 'Soft Atheist'. Though it sounds like I lose some street crediblity with that title

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:22 PM'] Agnostic Atheist or by some 'Soft Atheist'. Though it sounds like I lose some street crediblity with that title [/quote]
Actually, that gives you more creditability in my eyes