jasJis Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 01:12 PM'] All across the board. [/quote] C'mon. No you don't. You agree that a God exists. Be intellectually honest with yourself. Do you believe God created existence? Do you believe it was done with a purpose? That's a start. Or do you just choose to not believe in Religion that may have standards that are inconvenient to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='burnsspivey' date='Apr 14 2005, 02:08 PM'] Tangential, but: How does one not believe in a supreme being, but still allow that a supreme being exists? [/quote] To not believe in theism encompasses the many gods of those theistic beleifs (allah, yahweh, vishnu). I do not assert that a creator is logically impossible nor have heard arguments convincing enough. Creator is used in the most ambiguous sense and does not necessarily imply sumpremecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Just Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Apr 14 2005, 09:23 AM'] No. God can zap you anytime he chooses. Read C.S.Lewis's [i]Surprised by Joy[/i] [/quote] Exactly. He Zapped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote] Do you believe God created existence?[/quote] No. I do not believe Yahweh created existence. [quote]Do you believe it was done with a purpose?[/quote] I don't know and neither do you. To me its just as plausible that it happened by accident. [quote]Or do you just choose to not believe in Religion that may have standards that are inconvenient to you?[/quote] Common question and my answer is not at all. I feel my standards are far higher than that of the god of the bible. I do not need a commandment to inform me that harming someone is bad. Neither would I ever kill a child if said god ever commanded me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 02:43 PM'] No. I do not believe Yahweh created existence. I don't know and neither do you. To me its just as plausible that it happened by accident. Common question and my answer is not at all. I feel my standards are far higher than that of the god of the bible. I do not need a commandment to inform me that harming someone is bad. Neither would I ever kill a child if said god ever commanded me to. [/quote] Ahhh... I understand a little better. Is this correct? -You beleive that existence was created by a superior 'being', but that doesn't mean the 'being' is accurately defined by the 'God' in the Bible, or accurately defined by any 'Theist' set of beliefs. -You do not beleive that this 'creator being' intended for us particularly to exist. Our existence may just be an accidental side-effect from it's cosmic flatulance that is all of our known and unknown Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Apr 14 2005, 03:47 PM'] [/quote] [quote]-You beleive that existence was created by a superior 'being', but that doesn't mean the 'being' is accurately defined by the 'God' in the Bible, or accurately defined by any 'Theist' set of beliefs.[/quote] Close. I dont have a theory on how existence came to be. I dont think anyone knows how existence came to be nor do I need a theory to make myself at ease. As far as a creator goes. I do not believe in the gods of the various religions conjured up by man. At the same time, I do not believe that a creator is logically impossible. A strong atheist would say, a creator of any conception is an impossibility because of X. [quote]-You do not beleive that this 'creator being' intended for us particularly to exist. Our existence may just be an accidental side-effect from it's cosmic flatulance that is all of our known and unknown Universe.[/quote] To me its possible that a creator could be sentient or not-sentient. Could of created directly or indirectly. Has form nor has form. We could be inside the creator or the creator could be inside all matter. When I say creator you conjure up a god that wills things. I merely refer to a possibility of something that could have triggered creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Probably splitting hairs, but it seems, Mel, that technically you'd be considered an agnostic. (An agnostic does not deny the possibility of a God, but denies we can know His existance or anything about Him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:06 PM'] A strong atheist would say, a creator of any conception is an impossibility because of X. [/quote] A little humor here... So would you be a soft-serve athiest? ha...ha...ha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melchisedec Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:15 PM'] Probably splitting hairs, but it seems, Mel, that technically you'd be considered an agnostic. (An agnostic does not deny the possibility of a God, but denies we can know His existance or anything about Him). [/quote] Agnostic Atheist or by some 'Soft Atheist'. Though it sounds like I lose some street crediblity with that title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:22 PM'] Agnostic Atheist or by some 'Soft Atheist'. Though it sounds like I lose some street crediblity with that title [/quote] Actually, that gives you more creditability in my eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 I'll give you my point of view. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God or Jesus, never have and, honestly, can't imagine ever starting to. It's simply not possible anymore. I gave it a thought, pondered on it and can not understand what possible evidence or experience could convince me enough of such things. "Evidence for God" is contradictory. There can be no such thing. So you have to have faith. But having faith is the same as walking of a cliff. Most believers just die before they hit the bottom. What would it take then? More than is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 [quote name='Semalsia' date='Apr 14 2005, 05:56 PM'] I'll give you my point of view. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in God or Jesus, never have and, honestly, can't imagine ever starting to. It's simply not possible anymore. I gave it a thought, pondered on it and can not understand what possible evidence or experience could convince me enough of such things. "Evidence for God" is contradictory. There can be no such thing. So you have to have faith. But having faith is the same as walking of a cliff. Most believers just die before they hit the bottom. What would it take then? More than is possible. [/quote] God is beyond our understanding, there is mystery about God. If you have no trust or faith than you will never get anywhere. God is beyond the human mind. The Church He founded helps us to understand Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paphnutius Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Semalsia' date='Apr 14 2005, 05:56 PM'] "Evidence for God" is contradictory. There can be no such thing. [/quote] As to that I would refer you to the pope's encylical Fides et Ratio. Also to the philosophical principle that a cause is known through its effects. The effect is creation, the causer is the Creator. I can go into the theory of pure peferction and knowledge by analogy to show you how this is possible to know [i]at least something[/i] about God. The problem is that you say that it is not possible to knwo wihtout exhausting every possible attempt. [quote]But having faith is the same as walking of a cliff. Most believers just die before they hit the bottom. [/quote] What makes you say that? Edited April 15, 2005 by Paphnutius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted April 15, 2005 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 hey god conquers, i would like to know more about your encounter with god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semalsia Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 [quote name='Jason']If you have no trust or faith than you will never get anywhere.[/quote] Then I will never get anywhere. [quote name='Paphnutius']As to that I would refer you to the pope's encylical Fides et Ratio.[/quote] I don't know what that is. [quote name='Paphnutius']Also to the philosophical principle that a cause is known through its effects. The effect is creation, the causer is the Creator.[/quote] You of course assume a creation. [quote name='Paphnutius']I can go into the theory of pure peferction and knowledge by analogy to show you how this is possible to know at least something about God.[/quote] Confirmation of God's existance would be a good place to start. Without that any other knowledge of God is meaningless. [quote name='Paphnutius']The problem is that you say that it is not possible to knwo wihtout exhausting every possible attempt.[/quote] I don't think so. I can accept a logical proof. [quote name='Paphnutius']What makes you say that?[/quote] A person would not walk of the cliff unless he thought he would not get hurt. He has no reason to think so and yet he does. That's faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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