Evolution vs Creation

[Melchisedec]

So you basicly reject facts and evidence because it doesn't suit your worldview. Its denial, not refutation.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 02:46 PM'] More like creationist denial. [/quote]
Creationists don't deny that God could use evolutionary process to bring about creation: all things are possible with God. If that's how He wanted to do it, then that's how He wanted to do it.

It's just that since the Scriptures present the creation of man in a certain way, to believe that man is descended from apes would be going against the Word of God which clearly states that man is man in God's image.

Evolution is essentially anti-God.

I can't quite make you out Melchisedec? Are you a disgruntled believer or what? YOu seem to have a big chip on your shoulder over something? Some deep inner pain? No need to reply - just interested.

[Melchisedec]

[quote]It's just that since the Scriptures present the creation of man in a certain way, to believe that man is descended from apes would be going against the Word of God which clearly states that man is man in God's image.[/quote]

Considering that the ultimate result is man, some theist believe that it does not deviate from the bible in that regard.

[quote]Some deep inner pain? [/quote]

Not at all, in fact I don't know why a god would 'bless' an atheist so much. I got no complaints.

[bookwyrm]

Haven't we had this discussion about eight hundred million times already? And it never gets anywhere... sigh.

Okay, carry on.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='Melchisedec' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:34 PM']


Not at all, in fact I don't know why a god would 'bless' an atheist so much. I got no complaints. [/quote]
Oh good.

Why are you on this site then? To rattle a few cages?

Anyhow, about God blessing an atheist: yep, it's true, God send the rain on the just and the unjust - because He's a God of mercy.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='bookwyrm' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:41 PM'] Haven't we had this discussion about eight hundred million times already? And it never gets anywhere... sigh.

Okay, carry on. [/quote]
Probably but I'm new here so its a bit of a shock to discover that Catholics believe in evolution

Never mind. I'm sure it doesn't ultimately affect salvation.

I'm happy to call it a day if everyone's fed up with it.

I didn't know that the Catholic church had "no official stance" on evolution - so I was just asking a question about Catholic beliefs in this area.

It's been very interesting. Thanks everyone - sorry if it's all old hat.

[philothea]

[quote name='Priscilla' date='Apr 14 2005, 04:24 PM']Creationists don't deny that God could use evolutionary process to bring about creation:  all things are possible with God.  If that's how He wanted to do it, then that's how He wanted to do it.[/quote]
From the dictionary at hand (Merriam-Webster's 10th Collegiate):
[quote][b]creationism[/b]: a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis
[b]evolution[/b] (def 3b): a theory that the various types of animals and plants have their origin in other prexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations[/quote]

The common definition of "creationism" is contrary to any sort of evolutionary process. This is why I'm getting confused here.

What you describe sounds like belief in evolution.

[Priscilla]

[quote name='philothea' date='Apr 14 2005, 05:03 PM'] From the dictionary at hand (Merriam-Webster's 10th Collegiate):


The common definition of "creationism" is contrary to any sort of evolutionary process. This is why I'm getting confused here.

What you describe sounds like belief in evolution. [/quote]
Yes you're right - I'm going a bit ga-ga I think.

I certainly do not believe that one species can change into another.

God made everything ACCORDING TO ITS KIND.

Therefore there's absolutely NO WAY an ape can turn into a human - even in a trillion, willion, zillion years.

I think what I was trying to say was that I'm not averse to the idea that the earth is older than 6000 years and that there could have been a pre-Adamic race of some kind.

But personally I'm much happier just believing the Genesis account of 6 literal days - ALL things are possible with God: he can even create a new earth which seems old if He wants to: just to bring the wisdom of this world to nought and counfound the clever smarty-pants of this world!

I do not think it is a sin to beleive in a literal 6-day creation.

[infinitelord1]

First of all i dont see how evolution goes against scripture.....i see scripture as just picking up where the first modern humans came about (of course by gods will). There is too much evidence that says evolution takes place. I just dont see how people think that it goes against scripture. And Melchisdec, it is a miracle how noahs arc survived through glaciers isnt it? I can say this......this boat fits the exact measurements of noahs arc.......tell me where we can find another one that does too.

[infinitelord1]

melchesdic,

What is your problem? everytime i see a post by you you always bash any evidence that there is a god. Remember this.....you cant always be right. I think you need to prove that there is no god before trying to disprove everyone else.

[infinitelord1]

melchesdic,

i try not to laugh at all your comments but i sense disbelief in them. Why?

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 14 2005, 06:47 PM'] And Melchisdec, it is a miracle how noahs arc survived through glaciers isnt it? I can say this......this boat fits the exact measurements of noahs arc.......tell me where we can find another one that does too. [/quote]
There is no boat, in fact all expeditions have been called off for a reason. Because even after ice cleared away, no evidence whatsoever has come up to support that being the ark. Countless photos have been taken of this spot and its simply ice and rock. As far as the measurements, present your evidence.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 14 2005, 06:49 PM'] I think you need to prove that there is no god before trying to disprove everyone else. [/quote]
The burden is on you to provide proof. You say a god exists, you made the positive claim. Can you disprove that unicorns live in the middle of mars? You see where that leads. I dont have to disprove something which hasn't been proven.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 14 2005, 06:52 PM'] melchesdic,

i try not to laugh at all your comments but i sense disbelief in them. Why? [/quote]
You are the one struggling with your beleifs not me. I present the evidence as it exists. I try to represent the other perspective as respectfully as I can. You don't have to like me, but keep in mind I don't say things to just upset you. If you don't like my claims against noahs ark, squash them.

[infinitelord1]

let me ask you a question melchesdec,

What is reality to you?

[infinitelord1]

i never meant to disrespect you.....i just think you are funny cuz you are so blunt and direct with your answers thats all.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 14 2005, 07:57 PM'] let me ask you a question melchesdec,

What is reality to you? [/quote]
Where I exist.

[Melchisedec]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Apr 14 2005, 07:58 PM'] i never meant to disrespect you. [/quote]
likewise

[infinitelord1]

is this really reality......in this realm there is truth and there is lies. Wouldnt reality be a realm in which everything is truth?


I have seen photos of what they believe to be noahs ark. I choose to believe.



How do you explain a man named jesus that walked the earth and went around preforming miracles calling himself the son of god? Wouldnt this be gods ultimate proof of his existence? Or do you believe it is a phony? If so, please explain.

[infinitelord1]

things arent always what they appear to be in this realm