Guest Eremite Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote]The Pope is a smart man, but he really needs educating about modern music [/quote] Perhaps modern music needs educating from the Pope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Simple solution...have Scott Stapp from Creed go through RCIA and appoint him the head of a newly formed "Congregation for the Cleanup of Music" (anyone who had listened to Creed knows that he inserts Christian references into the songs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
001 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Personally, I disagree with anything Creed has to offer. It seems like their christianity references are just a gimmick to sell records. Music doesn't need to be cleaned up or censored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melporcristo Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 [quote name='001' date='Apr 23 2005, 11:21 AM'] Music doesn't need to be cleaned up or censored. [/quote] sorry but a great deal of secular music does need to clean up its act. THere is so much provacative music out there and a great deal of the musicians today can't sell a record without selling sex along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 well, we don't have to listen to it-if they want to make that sort of music, that's fine, we don't have to buy it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispy Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 [quote name='Myles' date='Apr 23 2005, 10:20 AM']Modern music in the mass can sound dignified. Moreover [/quote] [quote]it can never match the Gregorian chant for meditative quality.[/quote] i agree completely. there is a time and place for all kinds of music, including rock. the problem is that there are so many downright ghastly songs written in the contemporary style that make me gag. a good rock song deserves a place in a contemporary mass, but traditional church music jus amplifies the spirit of the sacrificial mass so much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufiokicks Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 [quote name='001' date='Apr 22 2005, 07:45 PM'] Alright first off, abortion is no sin. It can be a miracle to many. Second of all, Ratzinger was a Nazi. The attacking of rock was just outdated. The last person to do so was nutjob Tipper Gore (she bent the law to suit her own strange agenda). Personally, I trust Ozzy, the Prince of Darkness, more than the Pope on this subject. -RIP Randy Rhoades [/quote] Abortion isn't a miracle to many, it's a cop out for irresponsible people who have no respect for their bodies or human life. Even the 1% of women who have abortions due to rape have no excuse. But the point you're arguing is not whether or not abortion is moral. It also has nothing to do with Benedict being a Nazi. Joining Nazi Youth was his choice in the same way that it's my choice to be an American. I'm 16, I can't just leave the country. I disagree with many of the laws we have here, but I'm a citizen so I have to obey them. You compare his situation to choice, I compare it to rape. If a woman gets raped yes, she has sex, but it certainly wasn't her choice. She didn't ask for it, she didn't want it, she had no way to prevent it. Tragic things happen, being forced to join the Nazi party was one of them. Benedict does not attack rock music. He's entitled to an opinion just as you are. The idea is not outdated, it's still very modern and very logical. I love rock music, but there's no denying the negative message that it can have. That's the point he was trying to make. Just because he's pope now doesn't mean he's going to publish an infallible document that bans all rock music. Oh, and 001, yeah, you're a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 [quote] good rock song deserves a place in a contemporary mass[/quote] Ummmmm. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 [quote name='001' date='Apr 23 2005, 01:21 PM'] Personally, I disagree with anything Creed has to offer. It seems like their christianity references are just a gimmick to sell records. Music doesn't need to be cleaned up or censored. [/quote] I agree with you. It doesn't need to be cleaned up or censored but they need to start making sense. The whole music world is mostly going through cliches revamped and done in a different style. I'd rather listen to music that makes sense and has a will to be somewhat new. Most music out of that people claim needs to be cleaned doesn't have much deepness into it. Some people just want to be entertained and don't even care about the content. The artist is still an artist. I like to imagine what he's saying. It smells of elderberries to see soo many artists talking about the exact same thing when you analyze it. So does music need to be cleaned up? No, I think it just needs to start making more sense. In that process, it'll possibly clean itself up anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey's_Girl Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 (edited) [quote]Modern music in the mass can sound dignified. The majority of the time it simply acts as a policitcal vehicle for the dissidents in the Church and so it doesnt. Moreover it can never match the Gregorian chant for meditative quality.[/quote] Word up! Gregorian chant is *amazing*, but I think there are many very meaningful, moving modern songs. Plus, not every parish has the people who can do chant well, and frankly, badly-done chant is worse than none at all. [quote]As for what Benedict XVI is saying about music. Is anyone seriously going to say he's wrong? There is and has and will be a correlation between sex, drugs and rock and roll. Are we not remembering that Benedict XVI witnessed this first hand in the wake of the Council and its perversion by the forces of sexual liberation? Me personally, I'm afro-carribean, and I like rap and rap-rock like nu-metal. I'll even give Red Hot Chili's a bang every now and again. But can I deny that rap music doesnt give out the most positive message most of the time? That lots of youth's my age are influenced by the images they see on TV? I mean the fact that so many people now think its great to have hydraulics on your car and talk about guns like they've got any should be evidence that music does influence people. Hats off to the people at Phatmass they've taken Music and given it an anchor, which is what Benedict XVI actually advocates in the chapter of Spirit of the Liturgy that the extract in this thread comes from. The fact of the matter is that a lot of music these days epitomises the philosophy on music that makes it a mere act of the will and not an act of the intellect and thus a lot of music, often very powerful, carrying very bad messages is produced and pumped into the consumer industry.[/quote] Good points, Myles! I'm not worried that I'm sinning by popping some U2 in the CD player while I clean house, but certainly there's a lot of bad stuff going on out there. Certainly Benedict has made some good points about rock, even if they don't hold true in every case. But he deserves respect, and our attention (I mean, even before he became pope). Smart man, and a deep thinker. MG Edited April 25, 2005 by Mickey's_Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 (edited) [quote name='001' date='Apr 23 2005, 01:21 PM'] Personally, I disagree with anything Creed has to offer. It seems like their christianity references are just a gimmick to sell records. Music doesn't need to be cleaned up or censored. [/quote] oo1 has somewhat of a point here. It seems to me that Scott Stapp was not trying to slip Christian references into his songs. I think alot of Creeds songs had openly Christian lyrics, but he had lame excuses as to why they sounded Christian. It sounds like he just didn't want to risk the fans that didn't want to look at Creed as a Christian band. That's weak. I was a Creed fan, but since Scott Stapp went on to do that lame single by himself, I realized that I was just a fan of Mark Tremonti (the Creed/ Altar Bridge guitarist). As to Pope Benedict's writings on rock: first of all, he did not say these as pope, so don't take it as an [i]ex cathedra[/i] condemnation. My question is this: Was Cardinal Ratzinger speaking out against all rock music, or just secular evil rock music? Edited April 26, 2005 by Didymus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufiokicks Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I don't think Ratzinger was really speaking out at all. But uhh, since I didn't see the speech he made/read the book or whatever (I don't know where the quote came from) it's hard to tell. We would probably need the whole thing in context. I'm pretty sure he would be talking about secular rock music with a negative message though. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eremite Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 The book is "The Spirit of the Liturgy". He is speaking of rock music as a musical form, not the lyrical message delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 [quote]-by the way, I'm not sure if you're aware of "troll"'s racist connotations.[/quote] Yes, I agree, troll is a horribly offensive term with racist connotations - it denotes a pathetic little white boy who spends his life tied to his computer making asinine remarks in a desperate attempt to draw attention to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Card. Ratzinger/Benedicat XVI is entitled to his opinions about rock music. These are opinions, not binding statements. He has also said jazz and opera are also bad. I whole-heartedly agree that rock/pop music has no place in the liturgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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