Benedict XVI and Rock Music

[SevenSorrows]

I think part of the confusion is what people consider "rock".

First, Elvis was rock, and his hips were swaying with the devil and tv wouldn't show him below the waist.

Now Elvis is "oldies" music.

Rock is just so broad of a term. Some people say U2 is rock, some people say Metallica is rock. Some people think that just because drums are used in a band, it is rock.

Some people just never learn/grow or understand their history.

It is funny because my mom hates the music out nowdays (pretty much), but loves Elvis and talks about that he has "good music". But back in her day you were a rebel if you listened to him. So what was once considered rebelious/devil music, is now acceptable and played in the elevator as background music.

Or their are those people that think they are smart and conservative because they listen to jazz, or jazz is the only acceptable music. But just 80 years ago, only drunks, blacks, hoochies, and wild people listened to jazz. It was for the "loose" people. But all of a sudden later it is the conservative/uptight music of the masses.

[Noel's angel]

You have to take it band by band i think. You can't generalise bands because they play certain instruments or whatever

[Socrates]

I think the Pope's/Ratzinger was talking about the music itself, not the lyrics - i.e. rock music indulges the passions/emotions, and is therefore contrary to Christian worship.

I wouldn't go as far as him in his condemnation of rock, but I do not think rock or other contemporary pop music is appropriate for the liturgy. Liturgical music should be something sacred and different which transcends the emotions/passions rather than pander to them.
Liturgical music should not sound like banal entertainment music, but be its own sacred form. This has nothing to do with lyrics or rock being "evil," but the need for a true sense of the sacred in liturgy.

[Noel's angel]

I agree, rock/pop are not appropriate for the liturgy, but mostly, it's harmless when sitting listening to it in your car etc.

[p-hawk]

Noel's Angel, I'd say that if rock music undermines the will, then it is dangerous to listen to in and of itself, not just in the liturgy.

Socrates hit it right on the head regarding liturgical music.

Going back in history, it was EXTREMELY controversial when polyphony (or harmonies) were introduced. Gregorian chant involves the choir singing only one note at a time. Merely introducing harmonies was suspect.

[Oik]

What is the Churches history of music? What does the church say is Sacred Music? Our our musicians at Mass trained to play Sacred Music?

I think all us musicians can help the church by researching the Church's history and promulgating that and then we can allow Sacred Music to progress.

As for rock music at Mass, all I can say is, we should first master what is already been given to us.

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='p-hawk' date='Jun 17 2005, 08:22 PM']Noel's Angel, I'd say that if rock music undermines the will, then it is dangerous to listen to in and of itself, not just in the liturgy.
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Yeah, that's why I said [b]mostly[/b]

[ryanmeyersmusic]

I pray that our Holy Father governs on matters of faith and morals, not on matters of artistic preference and expression.

[Oik]

[quote]I pray that our Holy Father governs on matters of faith and morals, not on matters of artistic preference and expression.[/quote]

[Oik]

I wish Sacred Heart in Hattiesburg had a tridentine Mass.

[Guest Eremite]

Wow, I can't believe a thread I started two months ago is still alive.

[KnightoftheImmaculate1]

ryanmeyers said that he wishes the Pope would stick to matters of faith and morals.

That is a strange statement. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is definitely a matter of faith, and thus demands his attention. Some people have been saying that the intent of the content of the music is all that matters; that it just has to point towards God. Well that is a Marxist ideal. That is saying the end justifies the means. The Church has fought that from the beginning and will continue to do so "unto the consummation of the world." If that is not a matter of faith and morals, then what is?

Servvs

[Guest Eremite]

Benedict XVI's view of rock music, qua rock music, rests on his competence as a lover of music (which he is). This is a guy who plays Mozart for fun. He knows a thing or two about music.

His proscription against rock music in Mass, however, rests on his competence as a Liturgist, and insofar as it is part of Liturgical law, as head of the Church.

Rock music in Mass, and rock music in itself, are completely different arguments. In "The Spirit of the Liturgy", Benedict XVI treats of them at once, for convenience. But they are distinct discussions.

It's pretty self-evident that rock should not be used in Mass. It's not necessarily self-evident that rock should not be used outside of Mass.

[ryanmeyersmusic]

there's no "end justifies the means" argument here. it's just difficult to hear about "rock music culture" without smiling a little.

its like "western culture", as if my southern mississippi "western culture" is equivocal to someone's middle-italian "western culture". the broadness of such statements is absurd.

ultimately, music's moral realm lives within its lyrical content. while some "cultures" may associate certain types of instrumentation with certain types of people, it doesn't mean that they naturally belong together.

as an example, the use of drugs and alcohol to destroy in "western culture" could lead us to reason that all medicine is inherently wrong and has no place in Christian life. On the contrary, our responsibility as Christians is to draw good from worldly things by God's grace.

anyway, my original post was taken a bit out of context. i do pray, every day, that our Holy Father will lead us in matters of faith and morals, by focusing on our responsibilities in building the kingdom and instructing us on how to go about that better. Whether or not I listen to devilish drums and bass guitars seems out of that realm of instruction. i understand that many disagree and believe everything to be within playable bounds for the pope to teach on, i just pray that he takes his responsibility seriously enough to teach from the authority of the Holy Spirit, and not from his own hankering for Mozart and Beethoven. While a man chosen by the Holy Spirit to lead the Church, Benedict is still a man subject to his own opinions.

[ryanmeyersmusic]

and oik, talk to fr. vollor at holy rosary. he'd be your best bet.