Don John of Austria Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote name='Niccolò' date='May 8 2005, 06:12 PM'] Indeed it should, just like every other predominately Islamic country, but it seems they'll be more concerned now and in the future with those ethnic groups such as the Kurds and Armenians that appear to threaten the integrity of Turkish borders (and Kurdish resistance is probably the reason for this nationalism). [/quote] Yes but every other Muslim Country doesn't have 150 million ethnic compatriates in Central Asia( which I would add still have some Nuclear weapons in there countries), Turkey has the makings for a Muslim super power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote]Europe has abandoned God[/quote] Presumably you mean in terms of the states of Europe? You cannot possibly generalise this to all europeans! It was clearly a mistake not to acknowledge the Christian heritage of europe in the constitution, however the church still has influence in numerous european countries.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niccolò Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote name='Ellenita' date='May 8 2005, 06:26 PM'] You cannot possibly generalise this to all europeans! [/quote] Have you seen the numbers related to Mass attendance in Catholic European countries? Hardly encouraging (though the US is not much better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote name='Niccolò' date='May 8 2005, 06:32 PM'] Have you seen the numbers related to Mass attendance in Catholic European countries? Hardly encouraging (though the US is not much better). [/quote] The US is a lot better, and that of course is sad. Ellenita -- I mean Europe. Does that mean there are no Faithful Europeans of course not, but it means that those who are Faithful are such a small precentage that it is virtually meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellenita Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 [quote]Ellenita -- I mean Europe. Does that mean there are no Faithful Europeans of course not, but it means that those who are Faithful are such a small precentage that it is virtually meaningless. [/quote] I absolutely would not agree with you! A pinch of salt (to use a famous analogy!) is a tiny fraction of the meal but that's what gives it all it's flavour! [quote]Have you seen the numbers related to Mass attendance in Catholic European countries? Hardly encouraging (though the US is not much better). [/quote] I know the numbers reported in the media suggest low attendance but I just don't see it in my church - I've attended mass at all the different times and the church has always been full. There is a census of church attendance going on at the moment in UK - it'll be interesting to see the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 The last public Mass I went to in Europe had upwards of .5 million........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Are you bragging or complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q the Ninja Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Proving the fact that all Europe can't have people staying away from Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 7 to 12 % in France 30% in Spain... 45% in The US that beats every european country exect Irland and Poland, and this was country found by Protestants and Diest. Europe needs a serious event to shake them up. Of course France is probably aready lost to the Muslim, I am sure Martel is roling over his grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo.Teutonicorum Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='May 8 2005, 06:11 PM'] Well I am sure your name sakes would not be happy to here you say that. [/quote] Well my namesakes never fought the turks in any sort of major operations. Now if I called myself Basilissa Romaioi or Hospitaller or something, then we might have an issue. Though I do love the knights of St. John of Malta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Ordo.Teutonicorum' date='May 8 2005, 09:09 PM'] Well my namesakes never fought the turks in any sort of major operations. Now if I called myself Basilissa Romaioi or Hospitaller or something, then we might have an issue. Though I do love the knights of St. John of Malta. [/quote] I don't know the defence of Acre was a pretty serious operation, they defended the Western wall then, and they had plenty of lands which they lost to the muslims in the 13th century in the Holy Land. They where after all founded by German knight on Crusade to fight the Muslims, I think of the 3rd Crusade as a Fairly major operation. PS. The Tuetonics where Hosplitaller's as well. Edited May 9, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo.Teutonicorum Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='May 8 2005, 09:14 PM'] I don't know the defence of Acre was a pretty serious operation, they defended the Western wall then, and they had plenty of lands which they lost to the muslims in the 13th century in the Holy Land. They where after all founded by German knight on Crusade to fight the Muslims, I think of the 3rd Crusade as a Fairly major operation. PS. The Tuetonics where Hosplitaller's as well. [/quote] Well, true, they were the knights of the Hospital of St. Mary of Jerusalem. But I was of course referring to the more famous knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem - our current knights of Malta. And I think you're right - Akka was a pretty serious operation. However, the conquest at the time was carried out by the Mamluk dynasty out of Egypt. While the ruling members and soldiers were most likely of central Asian descent, they weren't really "Turks" so I think I'm still safe. But to be honest, I really like Islam too. If I weren't Catholic, and Christianity had never happened, I'd definitely be a Muslim. They're a great bunch. Very interesting. Besides, you're just still all fired up from the Battle of Lepanto Edited May 9, 2005 by Ordo.Teutonicorum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='Ordo.Teutonicorum' date='May 9 2005, 12:38 AM'] Well, true, they were the knights of the Hospital of St. Mary of Jerusalem. But I was of course referring to the more famous knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem - our current knights of Malta. And I think you're right - Akka was a pretty serious operation. However, the conquest at the time was carried out by the Mamluk dynasty out of Egypt. While the ruling members and soldiers were most likely of central Asian descent, they weren't really "Turks" so I think I'm still safe. But to be honest, I really like Islam too. If I weren't Catholic, and Christianity had never happened, I'd definitely be a Muslim. They're a great bunch. Very interesting. Besides, you're just still all fired up from the Battle of Lepanto [/quote] Darn right I am! But yeah if I wern't Catholic, I'd probably be Muslim, not that I think there a great bunch, just thatthere better than the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordo.Teutonicorum Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='May 8 2005, 11:02 PM'] Darn right I am! But yeah if I wern't Catholic, I'd probably be Muslim, not that I think there a great bunch, just thatthere better than the alternatives. [/quote] I study Christians and Muslims in the Middle Ages. I find them remarkably similar in many ways, and divergent in other ways. It is interesting that the Muslims are always portrayed these days as the more enlightened, tolerant bunch. But the truth is, I have evidence that the Christians were at least as tolerant of Muslim beliefs as the Muslims were of Christian belief. That's not to say that tolerance is always good, but I think an open dialogue is important. I've gotta ask though, Don John: Don't you find the Ottoman Harem just a little bit tempting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted May 9, 2005 Share Posted May 9, 2005 Well I said I'd be a muslim if I wasn't a Catholic didn't I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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