21st century Crusade

[Myles Domini]

Well since war and Crusades have been such hot topics around this place recently I thought I'd bring a few of the themes together that have come out of other threads and pose the question: Is the idea of a Crusade still valid in the 21st century? The board appears unanimously agreed that back in the Middle Ages that there was nothing wrong with the Crusades but what about in the era of modernity?

Many theologians have queried whether any war is just in our day and age given the destructive power of modern technology. However, can it be successfully argued that in principal it is illicit to take up the cross to defend those suffering from the attacks of men like Joseph Kony in Uganda or the Mujahadeen in Sudan? In your eyes could Rome legitimately call for a Crusade against the backdrop of a post-modern society? And of course...

...who in the Phatpham would be willing to go?

[Don John of Austria]

Yes. Boy that was simple, of corse the Crusade would be valid today, it is an indictment agianst use that one has not been called to save the Christians of north africa.

[Socrates]

I'm all for it!

[philothea]

Yes.

How could I vote no? It would make Don John so happy...

I'd have to do some sort of (personally) non-violent girly support thing though. I was made that way.

[MichaelFilo]

There is really no reason why the validity of one happening today would be in question. I think what would be in question is who's going to start it? After all... it'd be a rather radical step for our 21st century popes.

God bless,
Mikey

[philothea]

Good point, Michael.

Are there any actually Catholic nations still in existence? Will we have to wait for Aloysius's island nation?

[MichaelFilo]

If you mean "Catholic nation" in the sense that they give the pope some authority in the ruling of the country and the "last say", then on. It hasn't been like that for a while. A good estimate would be post-French error(I mean revolution).

However, there are many countries with an overwhelming Catholic majority that consider what the pope has to say, however, rarely is a very Catholic man elected into office in those countries, for reasons beyond me. They also tend to be poorer countries (exceptions : Ireland).

God bless,
Mikey

[Crusader_4]

Actually,

MichaelFilo Ireland is one of the richest countries in Europe today....(srry i know that was soo small to point out)....and of course there is a Catholic Country....Vatican City. I would say it is doable however i think a modern pope would have to be careful because the idea of 'christendom' no longer really exists to the same extent as in the middle ages.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 17 2005, 04:13 PM'] Actually,

MichaelFilo Ireland is one of the richest countries in Europe today....(srry i know that was soo small to point out)....and of course there is a Catholic Country....Vatican City. I would say it is doable however i think a modern pope would have to be careful because the idea of 'christendom' no longer really exists to the same extent as in the middle ages. [/quote]
I think Micheal was pointing out that Ireland was not poor since he said that it was the exception. ALthough despit its good ecconomy I would hardly call it one of Europes richest countries, it has a strong ecconomy and income but does not have the reserves of wealth that some other nations do, the researves that make you truely rich.

[MC Just]

I'm all for it! Ya know me.

[Socrates]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='May 17 2005, 02:26 PM'] If you mean "Catholic nation" in the sense that they give the pope some authority in the ruling of the country and the "last say", then on. It hasn't been like that for a while. A good estimate would be post-French error(I mean revolution).

However, there are many countries with an overwhelming Catholic majority that consider what the pope has to say, however, rarely is a very Catholic man elected into office in those countries, for reasons beyond me. They also tend to be poorer countries (exceptions : Ireland).

God bless,
Mikey [/quote]
I may be mistaken, since I get this from written sources rather than firsthand, but apparently Ireland has largely lost its Catholic religious nature (though still, like Italy, Spain, et., nominally Catholic) since becoming wealthy. It seems to have sold its soul for mammon.

[MichaelFilo]

Ireleand is much more Catholic than Italy or Spain. However, I see where you are comming from.

God bless,
Mieky

[Socrates]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='May 17 2005, 07:05 PM'] Ireleand is much more Catholic than Italy or Spain. However, I see where you are comming from.

God bless,
Mieky [/quote]
There was a recent article about this in National Review in the Religion section (forget the issue, but from the past couple months), deploring Ireland's recent drastic loss of its Catholic character. It was very sad and discouraging.

[Crusader_4]

Ireland has some serious reflectoin to do over the course of the next few years in regard to its Catholicsm. Hoewver there is always hope. I am also hoping with Benedict XVI he can strengthen the faith of Europe.

[son_of_angels]

The question is this, though, "If there was a Crusade, would any of us be willing to go?" I think this needs to be a big consideration before we go shouting "God wills it." Also, if there was a Crusade, that Crusade would need to be conducted a heck lot better than the last bout of them, with a true purpose of being the holy side of the battle. That means, while understanding that war means destruction, etc., that we must have as our principle aim the conversion of the infidel to the world-redeeming Creed of our Lord.

In this sense, battle is the final length of the Great Commission. We take to them and upon ourselves the sufferings of the Cross of Christ that each warrior may be a new martyr for his cause, and the people conquered may become the new Christendom. However, war SHOULD NOT be waged, I think, on a pagan nation unless there is no other way by which Christian interests may be protected, only against the rebelliously unfaithful, like Muslims. These are not members, to me, of a different religion, but of a heresy of which it behooves Christians to put down when it endagers the flock of Christ.

So, these are my thoughts on Crusade.

As for the practicals, critical questions would need to be asked. Who would supply weapons, technology, recon, intelligence, and all the things needed for a modern war? Certainly none of the national governments now in existence. It would have to be done with a certain amount of criminal intrigue, but when is it right to steal, extort, or break the laws of the land. Clearly, a Crusade could only be fought if first a revolution establishing a small Catholic nation could be formed in which the movement could grow. Perhaps this would have to be the first Crusade: Overthrow a national government with an international religious army, take over that nation and make it a Catholic enclave, prepare all the citizens and benefactors for battle, finally make war on the nations around Israel to establish Christian sovereignty in that region, or choose a nation, like China, to try and destabilize the government and make it possible for a flourishing of Christian growth in the region free of legal restraints.