Will Europe go the way of Byzantium?

[Myles Domini]

Once upon a time Constantinople was the centre of the largest Christian Empire the world has ever seen and home to the largest Cathedral of the age. Once upon a time...

[b]The City[/b]
A fading fire in the night
Of what in these lands burned so bright
So strong, so pure, so full of might
Enough to strike the heart with fright
A culture but more of an idea
A gentle whisper in the ear
A concept that was held so dear
A world so far yet once so near
What happened to our fondest dream?
Which burst forth from the clearest stream?
Which once shone with a brilliant gleam?
Which used to bond us at the seam?
How did you fade, how did you die?
How did you wilt before the eye?
How did you pass and no-one cry?
Say what becomes of us now?
Now thou hast taken a final bow?
Alien forces our strength they cow
The city falls though we know not how

For St Augustine author of 'The City of God'

[philothea]

I think "destined" is maybe too strong a word.

I voted yes, even so.

[Don John of Austria]

I also think destined is too strong a word, but I also voted yes. I think it is well on the way to suffering that same fate, but i think it can be stopped, will it be stopped, I don't know, protestantism smashed it pretty bad, then secular humanism followed by socialism picked at the leavings, I think Europe is on the path to destruction, but it might be able to be saved, maybe.

[Noel's angel]

Ireland is safe

[Socrates]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='May 20 2005, 12:22 PM'] Ireland is safe [/quote]
I've heard Ireland is now rapidly being secularized.

[Noel's angel]

Don't worry, there are still plenty of people like me that will make sure it doesn't go down the drain

[Socrates]

[quote name='Noel's angel' date='May 20 2005, 12:34 PM'] Don't worry, there are still plenty of people like me that will make sure it doesn't go down the drain [/quote]
Keep up the good fight!

(You'll probably kill me for this, but I thought you were British)

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Socrates' date='May 20 2005, 09:03 PM'] (You'll probably kill me for this, but I thought you were British) [/quote]
She is

[jezic]

definitely possible but not necessarily destined.

[Scofizzle]

I hate to say it, but I think it's going that way. There is still hope for revival in that land..unfortunately I think its headed more for the fate of sodom and gomorrah

[Mateo el Feo]

Did anyone watch [url="http://www.ewtn.com/worldover/index.asp"]The World Over on EWTN[/url] this week? The guest was George Weigel, and one of the main topics discussed was the various possible future futures of Europe.

[ardillacid]

It seems a sad fate.

[Ash Wednesday]

I voted undecided.

The Christian heritage has been Europe's very backbone for centuries, and if the continent permanently abandons it, what becomes Sodom and Gomorrah will eventually become Mecca and Medina.

Praying.

[Noel's angel]

[quote]QUOTE (Socrates @ May 20 2005, 09:03 PM)
(You'll probably kill me for this, but I thought you were British) 


She is  [/quote]

hmmm, that's debatable lol. Yes, I am from Northern Ireland, therefore I am a British citizen however, I have an Irish passport and I am culturally Irish. It's so complicated, sometimes I don't even know what I am lol

[ardillacid]

Irish!!!^

[Ash Wednesday]

You are a zucchetto party animal.

[theculturewarrior]

I know that God's Mercy is big enough for Europe, and I know that God's Mercy is big enough for Constantinople. God's Mercy is big enough for the most vile criminal, and the most hard hearted satanist. I see, that all of mankind is big enough for God's Mercy, because He created us to be His children, and to know that life is beautiful, because He is the Author of Life, and He has written His Love for us on our souls. And if anybody in Europe or Constantinople or Europe are condemned, it will be what they have written. God writes only life.

And I know this, because God is Merciful, and He had Mercy on me, and every second of life we live and breathe, it is because God is Merciful, and He has written the stories of our lives, and He only writes Beauty and Life. The rest is what we have written.

It is better for me, when I am tempted to think I am perfect, to remember that God created all of us to be perfect. His Mercy is His Desire that we be saved. He loves all of Mankind like a Father, and He loves to be a Father to orphans.

This is what He has written in me. I have only written my sins.

[KizlarAgha]

Constantinople fell to Islam because the Europeans got tired of crusading, pure and simple. While everyone harps on the fourth crusade for sacking the city in 1204, the city wouldn't have been there to be sacked were it not for the first three crusades.

Europe is not under direct military threat from the East, therefore, it cannot go the way of Constantinople. The attacks on Christendom these days come from within. They come from protestantism, from secular humanism, and from nationalistic tendencies. I hear people tell me that they are "pro-choice catholics" here in California. And I tell them, "There's no such thing."

It is this culture was that is destroying the fabric of society - European and American alike. I must say, the world has never been such a cruel and heartless place.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 23 2005, 10:21 AM'] Constantinople fell to Islam because the Europeans got tired of crusading, pure and simple. While everyone harps on the fourth crusade for sacking the city in 1204, the city wouldn't have been there to be sacked were it not for the first three crusades.

Europe is not under direct military threat from the East, therefore, it cannot go the way of Constantinople. The attacks on Christendom these days come from within. They come from protestantism, from secular humanism, and from nationalistic tendencies. I hear people tell me that they are "pro-choice catholics" here in California. And I tell them, "There's no such thing."

It is this culture was that is destroying the fabric of society - European and American alike. I must say, the world has never been such a cruel and heartless place. [/quote]
While i agree with you in most of that post I would differ on one thing, Europe is thereatened by the East. Spain and France are both beingoverrun by Islam , the rest will follow.

[God Conquers]

Constantinople was essentially eclipsed by European culture.

Its falling to the muslims wasn't the critical point, but the result of a much earlier fall from grace.

How was it eclipsed? Its vibrant Christian culture was lost. It separated itself from the Church, and the world shifted its cultural, religious and economic center from the Mediteranean onto Europe.



In the same token, I believe Europe has already fallen. The Reformation ravaged it and the 'Enlightenment' and modernist revolutions were a result of that.
The faith was lost, and so was their place in the world.

The main stage of the world has been for the past 150 years North America (despite the world wars in Europe, we know the major results in those wars were dependent upon NA influence).

I think we are quickly losing our place.

It is a war of Culture, and always has been...