Deaconesses

[Good Friday]

In [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=34056&st=0"]another thread[/url], there is an ongoing debate about whether or not deaconesses in the early Church were ordained to the sacramental deaconate. This has brought up another question, directed to those who believe that the ministry of deaconess was a non-sacramental ministry similar to the minor orders which are not part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

Do you think that the non-sacramental ministry of deaconess should be revived today?

[Aloysius]

it seems that what we need in that regard is a renewell of nuns and women religious orders.

[Myles Domini]

No. Principally because it was more a Syriac phenomena than anything else and secondly because its redundant. In the life of the Church the deaconess became irrelevant in and around the same age that monasticism exploded. Religious sisters made deaconesses unneccessary and between the two roles I dont think there's enough of a difference to have them co-exist side by side. Church History seems to illustrates that indeed they cannot co-exist, the sisters' service made the deaconesses' obsolete. In my opinion it still does.

[quote]it seems that what we need in that regard is a renewell of nuns and women religious orders. [/quote]

Absolutely

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='May 30 2005, 10:14 PM'] In [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=34056&st=0"]another thread[/url], there is an ongoing debate about whether or not deaconesses in the early Church were ordained to the sacramental deaconate.  This has brought up another question, directed to those who believe that the ministry of deaconess was a non-sacramental ministry similar to the minor orders which are not part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

Do you think that the non-sacramental ministry of deaconess should be revived today? [/quote]
I think that a restoration of the ancient order of deaconesses, as a non-sacramental ministry, is possible, but it could lead to confusion, since there are many people who want to associate the ministry of the deaconess with that of the deacon, and this could breed a false sense of equivalency.

Aloysius' idea is probably a better one, but I don't personally see a problem with a non-sacramental consecrated order of women religious who hold an office with the title of "deaconess." This non-liturgical office could have a particular role in caring for women in the larger community of the Church.

[Aloysius]

to make them visible at mass... require some sort of... official dress...

oh yeah they used to do that, it was called a habit.

I think that'd be a good first step, have widespread restoration and growth of religious orders and require them to, at least at Mass, wear habits and sit in a location at the front of the congregation. and as Apotheon admitted, perhaps the title "deaconess" could be available within the religious order. perhaps those who are "deaconesses" from a religious order would be the ones required to wear a habit of some sort at mass.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 30 2005, 10:45 PM'] to make them visible at mass... require some sort of... official dress...

oh yeah they used to do that, it was called a habit.

I think that'd be a good first step, have widespread restoration and growth of religious orders and require them to, at least at Mass, wear habits and sit in a location at the front of the congregation. and as Apotheon admitted, perhaps the title "deaconess" could be available within the religious order. perhaps those who are "deaconesses" from a religious order would be the ones required to wear a habit of some sort at mass. [/quote]
Religious orders, both male and female, are already required to wear religious habits, the fact that most do not is an open act of disobedience to legitimate authority (cf. CIC, canon 669; CCEO, canons 476 and 540).

[Aloysius]

I'm pretty sure there was some allowance at a high level that it could be only a visible medal of some sort. I'm not quite sure where it came from, but I believe that something came out of Rome and then all the major religious orders had big meetings and some decided for the allowance that they wear only a medal of some sort.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='May 30 2005, 10:54 PM'] I'm pretty sure there was some allowance at a high level that it could be only a visible medal of some sort. I'm not quite sure where it came from, but I believe that something came out of Rome and then all the major religious orders had big meetings and some decided for the allowance that they wear only a medal of some sort. [/quote]
Actually, Rome will not approve the institutes of any religious order without a design of a habit submitted as well. The fact that many religious in the West do not wear the habit of their order is a sad reality.

[Cam42]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='May 31 2005, 12:58 AM'] Actually, Rome will not approve the institutes of any religious order without a design of a habit submitted as well. The fact that many religious in the West do not wear the habit of their order is a sad reality. [/quote]
Agreed....

As far as the deaconesses are concerned there is a great book about it, it is called [url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898701147/qid=1117542202/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-8511163-0270346"]Deaconesses: An Historical Study[/url].

It is a good read and it sheds the best light on this conversation.

Cam

[Socrates]

I see absolutely no need for them. Baptisms in the nude aren't that common anymore in today's Church.

[Good Friday]

What about in terms of ecumenism? The Orthodox Church in Greece (not to be confused with the entire Greek Orthodox Church headed by the Patriarch of Constantinople) recently decided to reinstitute the ministry of deaconess. If we were to move toward unity with the Orthodox, should Rome allow the Orthodox to continue the ministry of deaconesses in the Eastern Churches, or should the discontinuation of the order of deaconesses be a requirement for unity?

Also, what about the ministry of deaconesses serving the women of the parish? This might not be as much of a necessity here, where the clergy pretty much serves the needs of both men and women, but in other developing parts of the world (such as much of East Africa) there is still quite a separation between men and women. Might the deaconess serve a meaningful role among Catholic women in the developing world? Or could this too be accomplished by women religious?

Edited May 31, 2005 by Good Friday

[Myles Domini]

In the East the disciplines would be covered by Eastern Canon law and not the law of the Western Church. In the Eastern Orthodox Church there is not really anything comparable to the large orders of apostolic sisters as opposed to cloistered nuns. The monastery is the heart of the Eastern Church but to my limited knowledge the various mediaeval innovations in consecrated life i.e. friars, religious sisters etc. never took off amongst the Orthodox. In the East thus there might be more room for deaconesses but in the West the orders of apostolic nuns should more than suffice for the task.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Good Friday' date='May 31 2005, 03:12 PM']What about in terms of ecumenism?  The Orthodox Church in Greece (not to be confused with the entire Greek Orthodox Church headed by the Patriarch of Constantinople) recently decided to reinstitute the ministry of deaconess.  If we were to move toward unity with the Orthodox, should Rome allow the Orthodox to continue the ministry of deaconesses in the Eastern Churches, or should the discontinuation of the order of deaconesses be a requirement for unity?[/quote]
If the Greek Church holds that the ministry of a deaconess is a true participation in the Sacrament of Orders, then it would have to be discontinued, but if it is seen simply as a form of consecrated religious life, I see no reason why it could not continue.

The concern that I have with regard to the reinstitution of a form of women's consecrated life under the title of "deaconess" is that it may be confused with the sacramental order of deacons, and this could lead to theological errors in the present circumstances.

[quote name='Good Friday' date='May 31 2005, 03:12 PM']Also, what about the ministry of deaconesses serving the women of the parish?  This might not be as much of a necessity here, where the clergy pretty much serves the needs of both men and women, but in other developing parts of the world (such as much of East Africa) there is still quite a separation between men and women.  Might the deaconess serve a meaningful role among Catholic women in the developing world?  Or could this too be accomplished by women religious?[/quote]
I am not opposed [i]per se[/i] to the revival of the order of deaconesses under the proper conditions and with the proper safeguards. Although I would note that women's religious orders already have the role of serving the particular needs of women within the Church, and so there is no pressing reason to reinstitute the ministry of deaconess within the Church.

[Cam42]

[quote]If the Greek Church holds that the ministry of a deaconess is a true participation in the Sacrament of Orders, then it would have to be discontinued, but if it is seen simply as a form of consecrated religious life, I see no reason why it could not continue.[/quote]

I agree Appy.

[quote]The concern that I have with regard to the reinstitution of a form of women's consecrated life under the title of "deaconess" is that it may be confused with the sacramental order of deacons, and this could lead to theological errors in the present circumstances.[/quote]

I also agree. There is too much confusion right now as it is. Look at the trouble the West is having with instituted acolytes. I think that to use that terminology (deaconess) is opening the door to theological misconception.

Perhaps we should look to the role of consecrated life and see what the previous Holy Father has to say about it.

[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_25031996_vita-consecrata_en.html"]Vita Consecrata[/url]

[quote] It is a source of joy and hope to witness in our time a new flowering of the ancient Order of Virgins, known in Christian communities ever since apostolic times.Consecrated by the diocesan Bishop, these women acquire a particular link with the Church, which they are commited to serve while remaining in the world. Either alone or in association with others, they constitute a special eschatological image of the Heavenly Bride and of the life to come, when the Church will at last fully live her love for Christ the Bridegroom.  (VC no. 7)[/quote]

[quote]By virtue of their dedication lived in fullness and in joy, consecrated women are called in a very special way to be signs of God's tender love towards the human race and to be special witnesses to the mystery of the Church, Virgin, Bride and Mother.This mission of theirs was noted by the Synod, in which many consecrated women participated and made their voices heard. Those voices were listened to and appreciated. Thanks also to their contribution, useful directions for the Church's life and her evangelizing mission have emerged. Certainly, the validity of many assertions relating to the position of women in different sectors of society and of the Church cannot be denied. (VC no. 57)[/quote]

[quote]Pastoral and catechetical formation, always important, is particularly relevant in view of the new evangelization, which calls for new forms of participation also on the part of women.Clearly, a more solid formation, while helping consecrated women to understand better their own gifts, cannot but encourage within the Church the reciprocity which is needed. In the field of theological, cultural and spiritual studies, much can be expected from the genius of women, not only in relation to specific aspects of feminine consecrated life, but also in understanding the faith in all its expressions. In this regard, the history of spirituality owes much to Saints like Teresa of Jesus and Catherine of Siena, the first two women to be given the title "Doctor of the Church", and to so many other mystics for their exploration of the mystery of God and their analysis of his action in believers! (VC no. 58)[/quote]

[quote]To consecrated women and their extraordinary capacity for dedication, I once again express the gratitude and admiration of the whole Church, which supports them so that they will live their vocation fully and joyfully, and feel called to the great task of helping to educate the woman of today. (VC no. 58)[/quote]

[quote]The human and fraternal dimensions of the consecrated life call for self-knowledge and the awareness of personal limitations, so as to offer its members the inspiration and support needed on the path towards perfect freedom. (VC no. 71)[/quote]

The late Holy Father has some important thoughts on this, don'tcha think?

[Good Friday]

I hadn't considered the Order of Virgins. Might they function in the same way, or at least in very similar ways, as deaconesses did? I really hadn't been considering them; there may be no need for deaconesses in light of the fact that consecrated virgins already fulfill many of the functions of the deaconess. Maybe we need to focus more on vocations to the Order of Virgins.