thessalonian Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 The local paper had a story yesterday called "Views Shift on Stem Cells". I post a few choice excepts: "Peggy Willocks describes herself as a consdervative, anti-abortion Christian in the heart of the Bible Belt", Johnson City Tenn. So when she considered embryonic stem-cell research two years ago, she found it naturally repulsive. The view changed as it has for other religous Americans.This religious support or lack of it, could be instrumental as Congress and President Bush grapple with a bill to exampnd fedral funding.... "I was equating it with killing a child", said Willocks, 54, who gives talks in support of such research. "I though of it as grinding up fetuses and all of that, so I didn't want any part of it." What changed Willocks was a personal experience. (Here it comes folks). She watched a frience and a fellow Parkinson's sufferer get to where she could move only her eyes for two months before dying. Willocks then went back to her BIBLE. (she interpruted scripture on her experience rather than the other way around folks. Sorry, I had to interject.) recalled God's compassion for the living, and determined that cells in a petri dish aren't sacred because scripture informs her that "life begins in the womb" she said. Surveys show that Willocks is not alone in her reassessment. Incredible is what I say. She is evidently an evangelical or fundamentalist bible alone Christian. If this doesn't scare the hell out of Fundamentalists and evangelical Bible alone Christians I don't know what will. How easy it is to interprut the Bible WRONGLY for yourself. Incredible. I say it again. Incredible. Of course the scriptures do say "before I formed you in your mothers womb I knew you" so perhaps she has a point. Surely God knew there would be petri dishes and how babies could be made in one so he surely would have covered all the bases in scripture on this one. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 it is sad yes, but not unexpected. Honestly in America today things are just diving. It is not slowly degrading, i think it is close to a free-fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Your right Thess Its a tough tough subject. The fact that good comes out of stem cell research makes it a much more clouded issue for folks who struggle with it. The end certainly does not justify the means. But the extraordinary "promises" given out casts a far stronger spell than riches ever could. I truly feel bad for the woman in the story. You can feel the hopelessness and desperation come through the words and I can empathize completely. And when we get to a point of desperation, we can rationalize things that aren't firmly grounded. The truth is that this is one more brilliantly diabolical idea to lead us away from the knowledge that life is sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musturde Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Of course the scriptures do say "before I formed you in your mothers womb I knew you" so perhaps she has a point. wacko.gif Surely God knew there would be petri dishes and how babies could be made in one so he surely would have covered all the bases in scripture on this one. Especially since they were written by man with the inspiration of God. There's no way God would have planned it like that lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 2 2005, 10:55 AM'] Your right Thess Its a tough tough subject. The fact that good comes out of stem cell research makes it a much more clouded issue for folks who struggle with it. The end certainly does not justify the means. But the extraordinary "promises" given out casts a far stronger spell than riches ever could. I truly feel bad for the woman in the story. You can feel the hopelessness and desperation come through the words and I can empathize completely. And when we get to a point of desperation, we can rationalize things that aren't firmly grounded. The truth is that this is one more brilliantly diabolical idea to lead us away from the knowledge that life is sacred. [/quote] Yes, I felt for both the woman dying and her friend in reading the story. But we agree that the end does not justify the means. Matt 7 about the house built on sand vs. the house built on the rock comes to mind. Protestantism cannot stand against the winds of moral relativism where every moral position is at the whims of the person who finds some reason why what is wrong might be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 It would help the other position if all the embryonic stem cell research had actually produced something useful that proponents could point to and say "Here, look what [i]embryonic stem cell therapy[/i] could do that other types of stem cells could not." However, embryonic stem cell research has produced zero effective treatments. On the other hand, other types of stem cell therapies, e.g. nerve stem cells from up in the top of the nose (I forget the name) or umbilical cord stem cells, have already produced viable treatments for things. The problem with the embryonic stem cell research is that it kills the embryo in its quest for the stem cells. It also requires an IVF (in-vitro fertilization) embryo, a process which is in itself wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Catholic side up, please..... Oh it's not like eggs? Thanks for clarifying that hot stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 2 2005, 09:55 AM'] And when we get to a point of desperation, we can rationalize things that aren't firmly grounded. [/quote] very very true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 You know since the invitro thing has been brought up as well. Two people that I am very close to went through invitro to have their children. Both are very very Catholic and both struggled immensely with the decision. Now both are mothers of beautiful children. When I am holding their children and they ask me earnestly "Why was this so wrong?" I really don't want to argue with them. I just sing to the child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:32 PM'] You know since the invitro thing has been brought up as well. Two people that I am very close to went through invitro to have their children. Both are very very Catholic and both struggled immensely with the decision.  Now both are mothers of beautiful children. When I am holding their children and they ask me earnestly "Why was this so wrong?" I really don't want to argue with them. I just sing to the child. [/quote] To have those children, other children of theirs had to die. No "very very Catholic" will have invitro... Someone who is Catholic and fell would have invitro. I think most would agree that a "very very Catholic" person would go by the Magisterium, not their own desires... we all make mistakes, but they asked why is it wrong... The most simple answer: because the Church said so, and God speaks to us through the Church. God makes right and wrong known to us through His Church. God Bless, ironmonk Edited June 2, 2005 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 2 2005, 03:25 PM'] Catholic side up, please..... Oh it's not like eggs? Thanks for clarifying that hot stuff. [/quote] Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote]To have those children, other children of theirs had to die.[/quote] Sigh.. Again we find ourselves in an area that you have no knowledge and yet you feel so freely to speak. Both mothers went through invitro with three embryos only. Both mothers are now the mothers of triplets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 2 2005, 03:32 PM'] I just sing to the child. [/quote] Smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Jun 2 2005, 04:11 PM'] Sigh.. Again we find ourselves in an area that you have no knowledge and yet you feel so freely to speak. Both mothers went through invitro with three embryos only. Both mothers are now the mothers of triplets. [/quote] I think Monk should not recieve too much criticism for what he said. In-vitro generally does involve the destruction of some fertilized eggs. I don't believe that the Church says it is right even if they did have triplets. If you can show me that it does then by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 [quote name='thessalonian' date='Jun 2 2005, 05:02 PM'] I think Monk should not recieve too much criticism for what he said. In-vitro generally does involve the destruction of some fertilized eggs. I don't believe that the Church says it is right even if they did have triplets. If you can show me that it does then by all means. [/quote] Thess I'm not saying invitro is right I'm saying they were very fortunate that none of the embryos died. And I'm saying that if Ironmonk would make that statement to a mother holding a child she has been desparately praying for for the past five years, then he would be completely heartless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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