jezic Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Where did the protestant idea of "being saved" come from? HOw does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I think it was Luther with the "faith alone" thing... as in, you believe in Jesus, and bingo, you're saved. You don't need to do anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 It depends on which protestant group you are talking about. I am both a former Lutheran and, before that, a former Baptist. The Lutheran notion of "Sola Fide" is somewhat deceptive in that while it acknowledges, "faith alone," it also recognizes that someone in continual, habitual sin cannot be saved. This is pretty much the same as with a lot of Pentecostal denominations, who add that one must have a second baptism of the Holy Spirit in order to really be Christian. Baptism is a sticky point. In Lutheranism and the other Reformation Protestants it is seen as a Sacrament pretty much neccessary for salvation, but in other groups like the Pentecostals or Baptists, it is seen only as a symbol of inner salvation. Baptists believe "once saved, always saved" and that you are "saved" in this life before death, by a once for all act of faith. We always learned this as the ABC's of salvation. A Admit that you are a sinner. B Believe that Jesus rose from the dead and is your Lord and Savior C Commit your life and soul to him. Baptists have the art of fast-food evangelism down to a science. The fact that I can still remember shows how effective they are at propagating their dogma. So, that's what I know about the Protestant notion of "salvation," a notion which I can recall teaching in Vacation Bible School and Sunday School and number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blovedwolfofgod Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 and that is how devotion is killed. it just annoys me that there is the doctrine of satan being taught in churches. the very reason we fell is because we wanted to be like God and decide what was right and wrong. so a overscrupulous renegade priest goes nuts, and next thing you know, interpreting the bible by means of the "holy spirit" is fashionable. I would think that if the Holy Spirit was actually guiding them in the truth instead of satanic pride, then they would ultimately come to one truth, in the one true church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 do not be quite so fast to condemn. While the doctrine is in some error there is a little bit of truth in it. We can be "saved" by Christ, i just don't think of it as a once and for all final thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 It is more than this though - It is Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura. Both are heresies that have brought about greater destruction to concepts Jesus prayed for in John 17 than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 what do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 32,000 denominations does not say much for Christian unity. Protestants are the most ununified bunch in existance. The fighting that goes on in a single local church is incredible. Protestantism is really not something that can be tolerated - its completely anti-biblical. Yes, they believe in Jesus and many are imperfectly united to the Church, but they are anti-Catholic by nature. As they attack the bride of Christ, they unknowningly attack Christ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 I can say this, my spiritual journey began with the encounters with truth that I had while I was Baptist, helped me to continually look for Christ's truth. My personal "salvation" experience which I had while I was a Baptist, and my baptism therein, made me open to the Holy Spirit, who led me, with the intercession of Mary and all the Angels, to the Catholic Church. My understanding of personal relationship with God and the necessity of evangelism which the Baptist church created in me has been incredibly important in creating my zeal for Catholicism. The key to reaching out to Protestants is to understand that the piety that they foster is not necessarily bad, just incomplete, and to let it be a gateway to Catholicism, instead of constantly condemning the incompleteness of their faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 i so agree did luther actually start it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 (edited) He started it unwittingly. He is credited with it. If I understand correctly, it was never his intention to start a new religion, but rather, correct a bad habit in the Church(strictly local-not the entire Church). At the time people were paying for indulgences, (the bad habit-you cannot pay for an indulgence-never) and he smacked something to a church door in protest to that. Which I do not percieve as something evil, just stupid.(not the why but rather the how he handled it) He was a Catholic Priest and died one day after Mass. Edited June 22, 2005 by Quietfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 no, in his heretical schism he was excommunicated and thus not Catholic and while maybe around 40 of his points were legitimate arguments against abuses, he used about the other 50 to further some new doctrinal agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 he also denied the help that the church offered. I was told by a priest they had a council with him and recognized many of the errors in the local church. He refused to agree with them and stormed out. Stories are surfacing as well that was "mentally unstable" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 If you actually read Luther's stuff, he changes his mind so often it's hard to know what he really thinks about anything. First he prays to Mary, then he doesn't, then, just for kicks he doesn't again. He calls the pope the Vicar of Christ, then he calls his primacy something of the devil. If you read the 95 Theses, they affirm both the pope's authority and Catholic doctrine, but then he uses the same arguments to foster heresy. The real focus for people reaching out to Protestants needs to be on the Charismatic movement in both England and America in the 1800's, and on its manifestations in the modern world, and how that both agrees and is perfected in Catholicism. Ignore those darned Lutherans and Anglicans, except the Traditional Anglicans, who would greatly benefit the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted June 23, 2005 Author Share Posted June 23, 2005 i don't think we should ignore anyone. We should even seek to convert our Islamic brothers. though i am still not understanding how the whole idea of "being saved" works.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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