the Charismatic gifts

[jezic]

that is the worst time. The only time P&W should be is before or after Mass.

You just received Jesus. That takes some serious thought and thanksgiving. Bad time for praise and worship. It would be a good time for a reflective hymn and there are some really beautiful and meaningfull ones.

Then Praise and Worship can come later.

I am not against it, i just think it should be used outside of the Mass.

Edited June 24, 2005 by jezic

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jun 23 2005, 08:07 PM']if you know you are speaking in tongues something is wrong.

The gift is extremely powerful. and honestly unless you have natives from different cultures who have different native languages you wouldn't know. That is what the gift did for the Apostles. They spoke and people heard it in their language.

It still happens today to people, but it is hard to find.

be cautious.
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Not only that, but it has actually happened in our day and time that someone has heard someone speaking in tongues and heard a known language coming out of their mouth that they didn't study. Let's review some scripture on this, shall we . . .

[i]When the time for Penecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together. And suddenly there came from the sky a noise like a strong driving wind, and it filled the entire house in which they were. Then there appeared on them tongues as of fire, which parted and came to rest on each of them. And they were filled with the holy spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim. Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem. At this sound, [b]they gathered in a large crowd, but they were confused because each on heard them speakin in his own language. They were astounded, and in amazement they asked, "Are not all these people who are speaking Galileans? Then how does each of us hear them in his own native language? We are Parthians, Medes, and Elamites, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya near Cyrene, as well as travelers from Rome, both Jews and converts to Judaism, Cretans and Arabs, yet we hear them speaking in our own tongues of the might acts of God."[/b][/i] (Acts 2:1-11 NAB)

Our music director, Roger Holtz said that the theme for our Pentecost Weekend Conference that our theme should be, quoting verse 15, with a slight nuance:

"We are not drunk, as you suppose . . ."



The thing is, the gift of tongues was real then, and is just as real now. The church actually goes as far as to teach that these are in fact, real. If the church teaches it, how then can [i]you[/i] say otherwise, not that I'm replying to "bashing" or anything, because you claimed you weren't, just trying to set the record straight.

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='jezic' date='Jun 23 2005, 08:13 PM']that is the worst time. The only time P&W should be is before or after Mass.

You just received Jesus. That takes some serious thought and thanksgiving. Bad time for praise and worship. It would be a good time for a reflective hymn and there are some really beautiful and meaningfull ones.

Then Praise and Worship can come later.

I am not against it, i just think it should be used outside of the Mass.
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Well, that's a thought that we may be able to put into consideration, although there is opprotunity for deep thought and prayer after communion also, along with the singing of songs and praising in tongues and in english. Usually, we have more than one song, and we don't play that one right after the other, so there is a gap of time for that. As far as I know, never has it been known that someone felt like they were distracted by this and couldn't concentrate on their prayer. To me, it's all good.

[photosynthesis]

do you guys talk about "baptism in the holy spirit" what does that mean to Charismatic Catholics vs. Pentacostals?

[iheartjp2]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Jun 23 2005, 08:36 PM']do you guys talk about "baptism in the holy spirit"  what does that mean to Charismatic Catholics vs. Pentacostals?
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Let me answer this the best way I can now. I'll get back if I'm wrong, but I'm 98% sure that I'm right on this one, so no worries.

"Baptism in the Holy Spirit" in the Charismatic Catholic sense is not really a sacramental baptism of any kind, kind of like the baptism of bells, in a lot of ways. You see, with your baptism (now I'm talkin about the real deal here, aka, the sacrament), you receive these gifts, I'm not joking, this is true. The thing of it is, you have to open these gifts up. If someone gives you a present, but you never open it up, can you benefit from what's inside? Nope. Same concept with this. The "baptism" part comes when the God infuses and profuses you with his spirit and that is when these gifts are in a sense, "opened."


Now, I might be a little more wrong on this one, because even though I was raised Pentecostal myself, I never really got into it, and on top of that, even though it's about pretty much the same concept all around, there are, I think, probably quite a few nuances you'll hear depending on who you hear it from, and you'r rommate might even have a different version than me. There's no telling with this protestants, eh? Just keep your ears open when you're around them and you can probably build on some common ground there. I actually became Catholic to get away from it and went through RCIA at a regular, everyday Catholic church. What brought me to Christ The King Catholic Church is another story and anyone who wants to hear it, PM me and I'll PM it back to you.

Pentecostal "baptism in the Holy Spirit" is when you, to them, ACTUALLY receive the Holy Spirit, which is manifest in the gift of tongues, kind of like confirmation, only for that, tongues are not required. Without the gift of tongues, they don't believe you have the Holy Spirit, and they say you can't be saved without the Holy Spirit, though some may lean a litte on either side on whether or not you can be saved, depends on how what version you get first and foremost, and then on how conservative or liberal they are to the teachings of their denomination or even the pastor of their own congregation. It's tricky, but I'm pretty sure that's one you'll hear.

Sorry this post is so long, it must smell of elderberries for you to read it all!

[iheartjp2]

I was reading over my last post and I noticed something, so I'd like to clear that up so that there's no confustion, and from that proceeding a post about it. I didn't become Catholic just to stop being Pentecostal. I became Catholic because I knew that Catholicism was the truth and that I should become one. My wording might throw people off, so just setting the record straight.

[iheartjp2]

I'm posting this 2 let u guys that I won't be able to post anything until Sunday night because I'm off 2 Gethsemane, KY 4 a retreat in about an hour. I'll get back to any replies that there may be, though.

God bless Mary intercede

[Brother Adam]

It depends on what you mean on P&W. Traditional hymns were once very modern hymns in the Church. I don't see anything wrong with using modern hymns today which are in the P&W movement as one day, 300 years from now, they will be very traditional hymns and Traditionalists will be pitching a fit for their use. Just as traditional hymns moved people back in the day, so to now P&W hymns may move people into greater intimacy with Jesus during the mass.

[quote name='jezic' date='Jun 23 2005, 09:13 PM']that is the worst time. The only time P&W should be is before or after Mass.

You just received Jesus. That takes some serious thought and thanksgiving. Bad time for praise and worship. It would be a good time for a reflective hymn and there are some really beautiful and meaningfull ones.

Then Praise and Worship can come later.

I am not against it, i just think it should be used outside of the Mass.
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[jezic]

there are some that are fit for it yes, i don't mean those.

They are reflective and not big/dancy/flashy. They help us understand the reality of truth and are a good way to engage the mind into a more total degree of worship. (hymns like this are fine and should be encouraged by all means)

i didn't not mean the speaking was not real earlier, i just advised caution. The Church teaches the same idea i was trying to portray.

Part of my response was from a reaction to an earlier thread.