corban711 Posted June 26, 2005 Posted June 26, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jun 26 2005, 03:59 PM']does your brother know Mr. Brown's brother? lol...from the same community.. [right][snapback]624604[/snapback][/right] [/quote] mr. brown's brother??? i don't know who that is! what is his name in the Community? is he from the states?
morostheos Posted June 26, 2005 Posted June 26, 2005 oooohhh....I love this stuff!!! I think so often we get lost in the legalistic battles of what's right and what's wrong in the practices within the Church (and outside of the Chruch as well), but really spirituality is so essential in the Faith and so often de-emphasized.
philothea Posted June 26, 2005 Posted June 26, 2005 [quote name='corban711' date='Jun 26 2005, 03:51 PM']i almost never do this...but i must let out a big complaint that i have. so many times when someone is suffering i hear people say, "well you are going through the dark night of the soul." oh my! certainly their trials are a "dark night" of sorts, one that can even make them holy, but those in the dark night as John/Teresa talk of it, are basically at the heights of holiness. thank you for pointing that out (i forget who it was right now, but they said something to the effect that it is for those who are very conformed to God's will)! Fr. Thomas Dubay says that many people reach the first night, the night of the sense, but not that many pass through it. often because of the lack of spiritual direction to be guided through it. i am so happy it is being talked about here! i love talking about the spiritual life! [right][snapback]624600[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I :heart: Fr. Dubay. I get a bit annoyed about the casual flinging around of "Dark Night" to describe all kinds of problems too. It's [i]not[/i] being depressed, or having a lot of bad things happen, or even having lots of trouble praying, or even all of them at the same time. It's a very particualr purification, and once the person knows what is going on, it's not even that difficult or unpleasant (at least the first one isn't). It's just [i]dark[/i].
jezic Posted June 27, 2005 Posted June 27, 2005 the path is easier to fall from. It is sort of hard to explain how it happens. Think of it like this. The way of contemplation is like a road. It ascends closer and closer to Heaven. Slowly winding its way back and forth across the landscape. As it moves higher, the sides get steeper. One wrong step sends you flying all the way down to the ground. Then it must be began again.
philothea Posted June 27, 2005 Posted June 27, 2005 Regarding falling from more advanced mystical prayer states... St. Teresa of Avila's [i]Interior Castle[/i], Fourth Mansion (beginning of infused contemplation: prayer of recollection, prayer of quiet) [quote]Into these mansions poisonous creatures seldom enter, and, if they do, the prove quite harmless--infact they do the soul good. I think in this state of prayer it is much better for them to enter and make war upon the soul, for, if it had no temptations, the devil might misleading with regard to the consolations which God gives, and do much more harm than he can when it is being tempted.[/quote] Fifth Mansion (prayer of union) [quote]I tell you, daughters, I have known people of a very high degree of spirituality who have reached this state, and whom, notwithstanding, the devil, with great subtlety and craft, has won back to himself. For this purpose he will marshal all the powers of hell, for, as I have often said, if he wins a single soul in this way he will win a whole multitude.[/quote] In the Sixth Mansion are all the extraordinary favors: visions, locutions, raptures, transports, etc. (It's a very long chapter and hard to pick out a good representative quote from.) As long as what is happening is authentic, the recipient seems to be in no danger of falling. False mysticism is dangerous, though. The Seventh Mansion is the Spiritual Betrothal, and it would not be possible to commit serious sins after that.
Birgitta Noel Posted June 27, 2005 Posted June 27, 2005 [quote name='corban711' date='Jun 26 2005, 04:07 PM']mr. brown's brother??? i don't know who that is! what is his name in the Community? is he from the states? [right][snapback]624608[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I believe he is refering to Fr. Joseph Mary Brown, who is currently in Montmorin, France, living as a hermit....prior to that he was the Prior of the Novitiate in Princeville, IL (no pun intended!). Am I right? I know him He prepared my husband and I for marriage. Studying mystical theology with the community has had a great influence on my spiritual development!
Apotheoun Posted June 27, 2005 Posted June 27, 2005 Anyone interested in mystical theology should read the [u]Philokalia[/u].
corban711 Posted June 27, 2005 Posted June 27, 2005 [quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Jun 27 2005, 12:00 AM']I believe he is refering to Fr. Joseph Mary Brown, who is currently in Montmorin, France, living as a hermit....prior to that he was the Prior of the Novitiate in Princeville, IL (no pun intended!). Am I right? I know him He prepared my husband and I for marriage. Studying mystical theology with the community has had a great influence on my spiritual development! [right][snapback]624952[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh! hehe. i didn't know his last name! i just know "fr. joseph mary"...that most certainly must be him then! yes, both my brother and I know fr. joseph mary. fr. joseph mary is so blessed to be able to be on desert for quite some time...i can't imagine all the graces he must be getting.
philothea Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 27 2005, 12:13 AM']Anyone interested in mystical theology should read the [u]Philokalia[/u]. [right][snapback]624976[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, well. I will have to get myself a copy of that! Thanks for the suggestion.
Semperviva Posted June 29, 2005 Author Posted June 29, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Birgitta Noel' date='Jun 27 2005, 12:00 AM']I believe he is refering to Fr. Joseph Mary Brown, who is currently in Montmorin, France, living as a hermit....prior to that he was the Prior of the Novitiate in Princeville, IL (no pun intended!). Am I right? I know him He prepared my husband and I for marriage. Studying mystical theology with the community has had a great influence on my spiritual development! [right][snapback]624952[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Lol, yip- he's the one I meant...but i'm a she, lol Edited June 29, 2005 by Semperviva
scardella Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 27 2005, 12:13 AM']Anyone interested in mystical theology should read the [u]Philokalia[/u]. [right][snapback]624976[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What's that?
Apotheoun Posted June 29, 2005 Posted June 29, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Jun 29 2005, 07:24 AM']What's that? [right][snapback]627249[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's a five volume collection (so far only four are available in English) of writings of the Eastern Father on theology and the life of prayer. It includes the writings of men like St. Maximos the Confessor, St. Gregory of Sinai, St. Symeon the New Theologian, St. Gregory Palamas, and many others.
LittleLes Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 In the Sixth Mansion are all the extraordinary favors: visions, locutions, raptures, transports, etc. (It's a very long chapter and hard to pick out a good representative quote from.) As long as what is happening is authentic, the recipient seems to be in no danger of falling. False mysticism is dangerous, though. The Seventh Mansion is the Spiritual Betrothal, and it would not be possible to commit serious sins after that. [right][snapback]624876[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: So in essence, in the "Sixth Mansion" one can experience all the phenomena associated with deep self-hypnosis, is that what you are describing? And speaking of illusions, wasn't that Spiritual Betrothal of Teresa of Avila suppose to invole a ring made of the divine prepuce, or some such story
philothea Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 3 2005, 07:44 PM'][quote name='Philothea'] In the Sixth Mansion are all the extraordinary favors: visions, locutions, raptures, transports, etc. (It's a very long chapter and hard to pick out a good representative quote from.) As long as what is happening is authentic, the recipient seems to be in no danger of falling. False mysticism is dangerous, though. The Seventh Mansion is the Spiritual Betrothal, and it would not be possible to commit serious sins after that. [right][snapback]624876[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: So in essence, in the "Sixth Mansion" one can experience all the phenomena associated with deep self-hypnosis, is that what you are describing? And speaking of illusions, wasn't that Spiritual Betrothal of Teresa of Avila suppose to invole a ring made of the divine prepuce, or some such story [right][snapback]630934[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Having studied hypnosis, I am certain that the sixth mansion phenomena have nothing whatsoever in common with self-hypnosis. And I don't know anything the later thing you mention.
LittleLes Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Jun 26 2005, 09:45 PM'] The Seventh Mansion is the Spiritual Betrothal, and it would not be possible to commit serious sins after that. [right][snapback]624876[/snapback][/right] [/quote] RESPONSE: "In addition to being held as a revered relic in several churches in Europe, the Holy Foreskin also figured in the writings of the Catholic mystics. Catherine of Sienna, one of only two female Doctors of the Catholic Church, wrote in "The Dialogue" concerning her "marriage" to Jesus. According to the good doctor, Jesus actually cut off, at the time of His circumcision, his foreskin and fashioned it into a ring with which she was married and united to Him." Sorry. Wrong mystic. But it would be wise to avoid "spiritual betrothals." LittleLes
LittleLes Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 "In the Sixth Mansion are all the extraordinary favors: visions, locutions, raptures, transports, etc. (It's a very long chapter and hard to pick out a good representative quote from.) As long as what is happening is authentic, the recipient seems to be in no danger of falling. False mysticism is dangerous, though." RESPONSE: So in essence, in the "Sixth Mansion" one can experience all the phenomena associated with deep self-hypnosis, is that what you are describing? [/quote] Having studied hypnosis, I am certain that the sixth mansion phenomena have nothing whatsoever in common with self-hypnosis. [/quote] RESPONSE: Then perhaps you ought to study hypnosis in greater depth. From Scientific American, july 17, 2001: "Using hypnosis, scientists have temporarily created hallucinations, compulsions, certain types of memory loss, false memories, and delusions in the laboratory so that these phenomena can be studied in a controlled environment."
Socrates Posted July 4, 2005 Posted July 4, 2005 (edited) [quote name='LittleLes' date='Jul 3 2005, 08:53 PM']RESPONSE: "In addition to being held as a revered relic in several churches in Europe, the Holy Foreskin also figured in the writings of the Catholic mystics. Catherine of Sienna, one of only two female Doctors of the Catholic Church, wrote in "The Dialogue" concerning her "marriage" to Jesus. According to the good doctor, Jesus actually cut off, at the time of His circumcision, his foreskin and fashioned it into a ring with which she was married and united to Him." Sorry. Wrong mystic. But it would be wise to avoid "spiritual betrothals." LittleLes [right][snapback]631001[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This is not from the actual writings of St. Catherine, but from an anti-Catholic parody! [quote]Apart from its physical importance as a relic, the Holy Foreskin is sometimes claimed to have appeared in a famous vision of Saint Catherine of Siena. In the vision, Jesus mystically marries her, and his amputated foreskin is given to her as a wedding ring. [b]However, this has not been traced any earlier than a seventeenth-century anti-Catholic parody, and as such is of dubious credibility.[/b][/quote] Nice try at mockery, but this is the equivilent of using Monty Python as a source of religious history. (Especially ironic for someone who is usually so picky about the "historical accuracy" of his sources!) You have once again proven that you are not truly driven by a desire for historical accuracy, but only to use whatever means you can to atttack and mock the Catholic Church. Really, LittleLes, have you nothing better to do with your time?? Edited July 4, 2005 by Socrates
Semperviva Posted July 4, 2005 Author Posted July 4, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 3 2005, 07:12 PM']hey there semperviva, is that a picture of u? [right][snapback]630893[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ...LOL, Monica bELLUCCI (italian actress played mary magdalene in the Passion,!!! watch the movie its amaaaaaazing) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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