Cam42 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 26 2005, 06:25 PM']thats true... i have a question for the more knowledgebale people hear THe pastor at my church calls his army of "eucharistic ministers" up and they all recieve the eucharist first and together with their backs to the tabernacle, is this allowed? [right][snapback]624632[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Facing the tabernacle has no bearing......as far as receiving Holy Communion, does Father receive first then the faithful? Next, there is to be a need for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. They are not to be excessive. Redemptionis Sacramentum #151 speaks to that. [quote]Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional.[/quote] Also look to Redemptionis Sacramentum #154-160. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 [quote name='morostheos' date='Jun 26 2005, 06:36 PM']Actually, I think he is ignorant. He is a very good-hearted priest, and wants to do what he thinks is right. I do not think he needs to be punished, but charitably informed. Thanks for all of your replies everyone. I have been gone from my home parish for a year and I am just coming back, so it will be interesting. Also, we have just gotten a new pastor (I met him for the first time this week), so I'm not sure if he might change it anyway. I will make a point to speak with him about it charitably. [right][snapback]624637[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Understandable, but ignorance doesn't impute guilt. While it is to be done in charity and with prudence, he needs to correct this abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 sorry im just venting... i acknowledge that this priest is above me and i have no right to demand punishment... sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jun 26 2005, 04:32 PM']sorry im just venting... i acknowledge that this priest is above me and i have no right to demand punishment... sorry [right][snapback]624695[/snapback][/right] [/quote] There is no need to be sorry. You do have the right to report him to the proper ecclesiastical authorities, because a parish priest does not have the power to tell people that they are not to kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer, or that they cannot kneel when receiving communion, etc. So if your priest is being disobedient to the Church by altering things in the liturgy, which he has no authority to do in the first place, you should talk to him, and then if he persists in his disobedience, take it to the bishop. If the bishop doesn't fulfill his duty as the moderator of the liturgy in his diocese, you can then report it to the proper authorities in Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I must admit that I am a bit shocked by the tone of some of these posts. First there are calls for "punishment" to be given to a priest. (What exactly would that "punishment" look like? Public flogging? Docking his pay? ) Then a blanket generalization of "post Vatican II seminaries" as caring more about "psychoanalysis than spiritual direction." Good grief. With parishioners like this its a wonder you have priests. Perhaps as a seminarian I'm a bit sensitive, but it is astounding to me that ya'll are ready to stone him or at best dismiss him as feeble minded. Thanks for encouraging vocations today. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Of course people should be charitable when pointing out liturgical abuses, but priests need to be charitable as well, and they need to recognize that the liturgy is the prayer of the whole Church. As the CDW has indicated, "Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff. It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. [i]This is naturally to be done in truth and charity[/i]." [[u]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/u], no. 184] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Apoth, I am not denying that an abuse is occurring, nor am I denying that it should be dealt with. What I have a serious problem with is the way people were discussing their priests. It is no different than the way VOTF or other dissident groups on the left discuss the hierarchy. If we claim to be orthodox, it should be shown first in our love. Maybe its fashionable to bash priests right now, but don't be surprised when no one wants to be one. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 That's why I said charity should be shown by all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 (edited) Pedro, I'd like to apologize for generalizing about post vatican II seminaries. I did not mean for my comment to be degrading to priests or to seminaries, although in hindsight I can see that it was. I was mostly speaking from my personal experience with this priest, and in a way trying to defend him because he was never given solid formation, which I am pretty sure is true. His reasons for leaving our parish showed that he clearly was not given proper means of perseverance in the priesthood, or that he did not follow them. I shouldn't have made the generalization, and I will be careful to avoid doing so in the future. I have a great respect for priests, which is why I brought up this topic to begin with, because I felt weird going against his reccommendations, even if they are incorrect. Edited June 27, 2005 by morostheos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Well my two cents.. there are some Bishops and Priests that do things wrong because they want too. How is a Preist going to go to Seminary all those years and still be ignorant of Church Teachings?? I hardly doubt it. Problem is the laity hasnt stood up against junk like this and has allowed it to go on. Sure, respect the Priest, they are servants of God. But they are not above God, the Law, OR Rome. Sometimes, were too gentle. I would be nice at first..but if nothing changes. Then go to the Bishop, then the ArchBishop, then the Curia..go until you cannot go anymore if thats what it takes to start doing things right. Why is there a Priest shortage? Because nobody is taught the Real Presence, and they have little good examples to follow. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroX Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 morostheos, No sweat dude. I agree that some (many?) did not recieve enough (or proper) formation and that this is at the root of many of the problems we face. We must remember though that they are our fathers and we approach them out of love and respect. Keep fighting the good fight in love. peace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Ok Pedro..... Let's assume your seminary didn't allow kneeling. Everyone was to stand for the Canon. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 actually pedro, i would be a dudette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
let_go_let_God Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 As far as I understand, the use of the GIRM has been explained, but also doesn't the "normal posture" during mass also depend on whether or not your local Bishop has allowed for such posture to occur? The only reason that I ask this is because we are having a similar debate at my college. God bless- LGLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted July 1, 2005 Author Share Posted July 1, 2005 I actually have one more question.... What does this particular paragraph in the GIRM mean? I took it to mean that I should do what my pastor dictated for the celebration. [quote]With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.[/quote] But does that not hold true if the priest gives directions contrary to what is indicated in the Missal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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