Catechism of the Catholic Church

[Cam42]

[quote name='Cam 42 @ Today' date=' 11:53 AM; doctrine on mortal sin'][quote]Of course many of the dogmas and doctrines contained in the Catechism are infallible, but they are infallible because of prior definitions or declarations by either the Pope alone, or the Pope and the whole Episcopal College.[/quote]

And what do you think the Catechism is? The Catechism is a declaration of the Pope and the whole Episcopal College. John Paul II made that statement.

And as Eremite quotes:
[quote name='(Pope Benedict XVI)']The individual doctrine which the Catechism presents receive no other weight than that which they already possess. The weight of the Catechism itself lies in the whole. Since it transmits what the Church teaches, whoever rejects it as a whole separates himself beyond question from the faith and teaching of the Church.[/quote]

The Catechism is part of the infallible Magisterium, because the teachings contained within are infallible. You can't separate the two.[/quote]

Here is what the USCCB says about this:

[quote]What is the teaching authority of the new Catechism?

The Catechism is part of the Church's official teaching in the sense that it was suggested by a Synod of Bishops, requested by the Holy Father, prepared and revised by bishops and promulgated by the Holy Father as part of his ordinary Magisterium. The Holy Father has said that the Catechism "is given to serve as a sure and authentic source book for the teaching of Catholic doctrine."[/quote]

[quote]What did the Holy Father say about the doctrinal authority of the Catechism?

In Fidei Depositum, Pope John Paul II said, "The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved on 25 June, 1992, and whose publication I command today in virtue of the apostolic authority, is a presentation of the Church's faith and of Catholic doctrine witnessed to or clarified by sacred Scripture, the apostolic tradition and the Church's magisterium. I acknowledge it as a valuable and authorized instrument at the service of the ecclesial communion and as a sure and certain standard for the teaching of the faith."[/quote]


[quote]Is the doctrinal authority of the Catechism equal to that of the dogmatic definitions of a pope or ecumenical council?

By its very nature, a catechism presents the fundamental truths of the faith which have already been communicated and defined. Because the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine in a complete yet summary way, it naturally contains the infallible doctrinal definitions of the popes and ecumenical councils in the history of the Church. It also presents teaching which has not been communicated and defined in these most solemn forms. This does not mean that such teaching can be disregarded or ignored. Quite to the contrary, the Catechism presents Catholic doctrine as an organic whole and as it is related to Christ who is the center. A major catechism, such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church, presents a compendium of Church teachings and has the advantage of demonstrating the harmony that exists among those teachings.[/quote]

[quote]Is the Catechism an example of the collegiality of the bishops?

Yes. The Catechism is an historic example of episcopal collegiality. The collegiality of the Bishops whose unity is presided over by the Bishop of Rome was one of the truths professed by the Second Vatican Council. The establishment of the Synod of Bishops is perhaps the most evident form of episcopal collegiality since the Council. In his address to the Council of the General Secretariat of the Synod of Bishops on April 30, 1983, Pope John Paul II said: "The Synod is in fact a particularly fruitful expression and the most effective tool of episcopal collegiality, that is, of the special responsibility of the Bishops in conjunction with the Bishop of Rome." The Catechism is one of the direct results of the deliberations of the Synod of Bishops.[/quote]

[quote]How, then, is the Catechism an example of episcopal collegiality?

The Catechism is an example of episcopal collegiality because it was requested by the Synod of Bishops and affirmed by the Bishop of Rome; it was conceived, designed and written by Bishops primarily for Bishops; it was examined by the Catholic episcopate worldwide and it was officially promulgated by the Bishop of Rome.

Episcopal collegiality, then, seems to be a primary characteristic of the preparation of the Catechism. When he presented the Catechism to the Holy Father, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, president of the Commission for the Catechism, said: "The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the result of a collegial episcopal effort...Thus, once again, the affective and effective collegiality of the Episcopate has been engaged in real and concrete terms, with abundant fruitful results."[/quote]

It expresses collegiality. It expresses unity. It expresses Apostolic Authority. It is an extension of Vatican Council II. It is infallible by it's nature, due to the understanding of the magisterial and unified collegial teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Brother Adam]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

A rejection of the CCC is a rejection of the ordinary magisterium of the Church. Perhaps it is possible to misunderstand something in the Catechism, but nothing contained in the Catechism is in error.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

How could it not be? It was "promulgated" by the Holy Father, was it not?

[jezic]

how does this discussion draw us into closer communion with Christ? Is that not the goal of life, and the constant state of being we should strive for at all times?

The Catechism is great. It rocks. It is true.

[Cam42]

Promulgation doesn't necessarily equate infallibilty. However, John Paul II did excercise Apostolic Authority, and the college of bishops did, in fact, make a unitive statement....All of the bishops in union with the previous Holy Father.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 29 2005, 01:32 PM']Promulgation doesn't necessarily equate infallibilty.  However, John Paul II did excercise Apostolic Authority, and the college of bishops did, in fact, make a unitive statement....All of the bishops in union with the previous Holy Father.
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True. I think I was thinking of the "letter" in the beginning of mine (the "big green") where John Paul II said something about it being a "definitive text".

I guess I meant something more along the lines of how could something so "official" in the Church not be infallible?

[Socrates]

The doctrine in the Catechism is sound, but honestly, I don't like the way much of the Catechism is worded. Much of it seems tainted with modern "political correctness" and a striving to avoid offending modern liberal sensibilites.

[Brother Adam]

The Catechism is worded in such a way as people like me (the former Baptist) won't take it the WRONG way and in turn played a role in helping me to come into the Fullness of the Faith.

[Apotheoun]

The Catechism neither defines nor declares any dogmatic, it is simply a reiteration of the existing teaching of the Church. Thus, the Catechism is not in itself an infallible document of the Church's Magisterium, either Ordinary or Extraordinary.

Nevertheless, the Catechism does contain various infallible dogmas and doctrines of the faith that have previously been defined or declared, but is not in itself an infallible act of the Magisterium.

It is an "authentic source" for teaching Catholic doctrine, but that does not mean that it was issued as an infallible act, defining or non-defining, of the Church's Magisterium.

[son_of_angels]

As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Catechism has neither been solemnly declared as dogma nor issued ex cathedra, nor been promulgated by an ecumenical council. Are not these the only forms that are legally the means for exercising infallibility?

So, while the Catechism itself is not an infallible action of the Pope or the Magisterium, it makes sense that all the dogma which is published therein would nonetheless be infallible. We also remember that the Holy See has authorized and commanded its publication, which, while not enjoying the unique position of infallibility, places the teachings contained therein as being doctrines issued with the authority of the pope. The pope possessing, by the definition of the First Vatican Council, the fullness of Christian authority on earth, these doctrines are no less binding, whether or not they may be deemed "infallible."

Infallibility is not the only justification for respect and obedience. One could not consider, for example, the writings of many respected saints and mystics to be infallible but they are recognized as being "inspired" writings or writings that are not entirely of human origin. Therefore, while we may not act as if they were dogma, we cannot dismiss them entirely either. How much more does this apply to the teachings of the man holding the totality of Christian authority on earth, given him as the Vicar of Christ.

[Guest St. Gimp]

[url="http://www.jimmyakin.org/2005/02/ratzinger_on_th.html"]Nope.[/url]

[quote][T]he Catechism presents the teaching of the Church without elevating the doctrinal status of those teachings beyond what they otherwise have. Consequently, one must look to other documents and to the tradition of the Church to establish the doctrinal weight of any particular point in the Catechism. Since the Catechism treats many things that not only have not been taught infallibly but which also have been proposed in the most tentative of fashions (esp. in the area of social teaching), there remains due liberty for theologians (and others) when they encounter something that has been proposed only tentatively.[/quote]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Jun 29 2005, 10:41 AM']True. I think I was thinking of the "letter" in the beginning of mine (the "big green") where John Paul II said something about it being a "definitive text".

I guess I meant something more along the lines of how could something so "official" in the Church not be infallible?
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In the papal letter that you're referring to, the Holy Father is talking about the Latin editio typica of the Catechism (1997), which he indicates is the "definitive text" of the Catechism, replacing the French edition. Now, since the Latin edition is the "definitive text" of the universal Catechism, it follows that all the various vernacular translations must be conformed to it.

[Cam42]

[quote]As I understand it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Catechism has neither been solemnly declared as dogma nor issued ex cathedra, nor been promulgated by an ecumenical council. Are not these the only forms that are legally the means for exercising infallibility?[/quote]

The Catechism is an extension of Vatican Council II. It was promulgated by Vatican Council II.

[quote name='Fidei Depositum']GUARDING THE DEPOSIT OF FAITH IS THE MISSION WHICH THE LORD ENTRUSTED TO HIS CHURCH, and which she fulfills in every age. The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, which was opened 30 years ago by my predecessor Pope John XXIII, of happy memory, had as its intention and purpose to highlight the Church's apostolic and pastoral mission, and by making the truth of the Gospel shine forth to lead all people to seek and receive Christ's love which surpasses all knowledge (cf. Eph 3:19).

The principal task entrusted to the Council by Pope John XXIII was to guard and present better the precious deposit of Christian doctrine in order to make it more accessible to the Christian faithful and to all people of good will. For this reason the Council was not first of all to condemn the errors of the time, but above all to strive calmly to show the strength and beauty of the doctrine of the faith. "Illumined by the light of this Council", the Pope said, "the Church. . . will become greater in spiritual riches and gaining the strength of new energies therefrom, she will look to the future without fear. . . Our duty is to dedicate ourselves with an earnest will and without fear to that work which our era demands of us, thus pursuing the path which the Church has followed for 20 centuries."

With the help of God, the Council Fathers in four years of work were able to produce a considerable number of doctrinal statements and pastoral norms which were presented to the whole Church. There the Pastors and Christian faithful find directives for that "renewal of thought, action, practices and moral virtue, of joy and hope, which was the very purpose of the Council".[/quote]

As stated by the Holy Father and affirmed by the bishops of the world, this is a definitive statement. It is a part of the magisterial teaching of the Church as understood by the bishops and the Holy Father. Both documents [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/aposcons.htm"]Fidei Depositum[/url] and [url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/aposletr.htm"]Laetamur Mangopere[/url] speak to that.

The Catechism is part of the ordinarium magisterium.

[Guest Eremite]

If, as Pope Benedict XVI says, "the individual doctrine which the Catechism presents receive no other weight than that which they already possess", then it cannot be said to be infallible. An infallible statement gives something greater weight, by virtue of the statement itself. But the Catechism does not give anything it teaches any greater weight than it already possesses.

Nevertheless, the Catechism is an initiative of the ordinary and universal magisterium, and though not infallible in itself, it nonetheless requires submission of intellect and will, as a whole. Individual doctrines referred to in the Catechism may require the submission of faith, but not because they are taught in the Catechism, but because they already require such submission.

[jezic]

obedience and infallibility are different things