banning fornication

[dairygirl4u2c]

There's also a jurisdictional question that you can elaborate on in a post. Like you think it should be in your local community, but not everywhere or everywhere too etc.

[avemaria40]

i say no b/c even though it is wrong, God gave us all free will and we have to be encouraged to make our own choices. It's not like rape, murder, abortion, or anything like that where u r physically harming another person. Also, even though i believe it is wrong and a mortal sin, i don't believe we can police ppl's bedrooms. I'm sorry but that's the way i feel.

[dairygirl4u2c]

Thank you for your response Ave.

I understand how fornication and gay marriages are different in society and law and not analogous. But I'd like for you to explain this. How do you distinquish between allowing fornication and not allowing gay marriage? (I assume you're against gay marriage)

[Theoketos]

Even legally already there is a difference between sodomy and fornication.

[dairygirl4u2c]

First, sodomy and gay marriage are not the same in this thread. Gay marriage deals with marriage, an act which is recognized by society in the law. (and which is something heterosexuals have). Sodomy does not deal with marriage. Sodomy is a single act. Sodomy does occur in gay marriage, but as I've shown, they do not encompass marriage so are not the same for the purposes of this discussion. If you're saying that because gay marriages encompasses sodomy, you'd have to explain more, plus show what should be the case for those gays who are not sexual.

I already admitted that fornication and gay marriage are different, and I asked for an explanation for how. Not for you to repeat what I said and use a different word to evoke people's emotions. (which based on the depth of your response appears to be what you're doing) Even if sodomy and gay marriage were the same, I did not ask for you to repeat what I said simply to evoke people's emotions.

Edited July 2, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[avemaria40]

about gay marriage, i also think this is wrong but like fornication and divorce, i don't think our gov. has the power to outlaw it

[dUSt]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 2 2005, 12:09 PM']It's not like rape, murder, abortion, or anything like that where u r physically harming another person.  Also, even though i believe it is wrong and a mortal sin, i don't believe we can police ppl's bedrooms.  I'm sorry but that's the way i feel.
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Speeding isn't physically harming another person, but it's illegal.

I think fornication does harm people and society--more so than than paying for one movie at a theatre and sneaking in to watch a second one after the first one ends. The latter is illegal.

[Socrates]

[quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 2 2005, 02:36 PM']about gay marriage, i also think this is wrong but like fornication and divorce, i don't think our gov. has the power to outlaw it
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There is no such thing as "gay" marriage. Marriage is a natural institution blessing the union of a man and a woman to have children and raise a family. The Church has raised this to a sacrament. The state gives legal recognition to marriages. What the homosexual activists want is this same legal recognition confered upon sodomistic same-sex "unions."

This legal recognition of something which can never be a true marriage is something which did not exist until very recently at the urging of homosexual activists. Thus, this "marriage" is is a new legal creation by the law, not something which the state "outlaws."

Sodomy is not marriage, and those who practice it have no "right" for it to be recognized as such by the law.

Edited July 2, 2005 by Socrates

[Aloysius]

I wouldn't mind anti-fornication laws. now, there would still be all the limitations on police et cetera.. and they wouldn't be able to strictly enforce it (nor would I want them to) but having the law in place for those times when it is obvious... teach people some shame and get rid of the open sexually permissive society... i.e. while many would be doing it, they wouldn't be out boasting about it.

also, gay marriage is entirely different. now, if you want to make the analogy to outlawing sodomy, like Texas was doing until the Supreme Court stopped them, that's more relatable. However, when it comes to gay marriage the question is: should the government recognize homosexual unions? that's it. gay marriage is not illegal... no one gets arrested for having whatever crazy ceremony they want to say they are married. gay marriage is simply not recognized by the state, that's it.

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Jul 2 2005, 12:16 PM']Thank you for your response Ave.

I understand how fornication and gay marriages are different in society and law and not analogous. But I'd like for you to explain this. How do you distinquish between allowing fornication and not allowing gay marriage? (I assume you're against gay marriage)
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Fornication = (hetero)sexual intercourse without legal recognition.

"Gay marriage" = sodomy given legal recognition.

Two totally different things.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 2 2005, 06:00 PM']I wouldn't mind anti-fornication laws.  now, there would still be all the limitations on police et cetera.. and they wouldn't be able to strictly enforce it (nor would I want them to) but having the law in place for those times when it is obvious... teach people some shame and get rid of the open sexually permissive society... i.e. while many would be doing it, they wouldn't be out boasting about it.

also, gay marriage is entirely different.  now, if you want to make the analogy to outlawing sodomy, like Texas was doing until the Supreme Court stopped them, that's more relatable.  However, when it comes to gay marriage the question is: should the government recognize homosexual unions?  that's it.  gay marriage is not illegal... no one gets arrested for having whatever crazy ceremony they want to say they are married.  gay marriage is simply not recognized by the state, that's it.
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[/quote]

Exactly, Batman (see you're no longer James Bond).

[Aloysius]

well... I saw the new Batman movie... and you know... Batman's just so much cooler now

[Socrates]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 2 2005, 06:29 PM']well... I saw the new Batman movie... and you know... Batman's just so much cooler now


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Batman's my hero. (note the Bruce Wayne avatar)

[curtins]

fornication and gay marriage are two differnt things

fornication most deffinatly harms society- just look at teen sex and how that messes up society so much. anti fornication laws would be great but i doubt it would happen

[Craftygrl06]

in virginia it is illegal to have sex before marriage.

[Guest JeffCR07]

Getting back to the actual question:

Yes, I think fornication should be illegal. It is a serious social ill that has vast, vast repercussions on society as a whole, and thus on families, children etc.

Now, practically speaking, it may not be practically feasible to enforce such a law, and thus such a law might not be enacted. However, I do not think that the lack of a law prohibiting sodomy necessarily means that it is endorsed - it may simply acknowledge what I just said - namely, that it would be impossible to enforce such a law, and we shouldnt have laws that we cant reasonable enforce.

In Christ,

Jeff

[p-hawk]

Smoking is banned from public buildings because it causes a variety of health problems. Fornication (and sodomy) should be outlawed because of sexually transmitted diseases. It would be hard to enforce, but it could go a long way to help fight AIDS, clap, etc.

Or, health care rates could be lowered for those who pledge chastity and demonstrate that they aren't sexually active, or at least don't have any STD's. Provide a financial disincentive.

If we really wanted to get lowered rates of fornication in this culture of death, it would probably be easier to resort to arguments in the natural law.

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Craftygrl06' date='Jul 2 2005, 07:54 PM']in virginia it is illegal to have sex before marriage.
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...lol, when i saw the thread title that's what i thought of...lol, pretty sure its still illegal to fornicate in a bunch of states...but, um, hhhmmm, is that law enforced, um, lemme think-NO...(haha imagine how funny/saddening/downright scary it would be if they actually started enforcing this law- like over half the country behind bars...)[i] i think it would amaaazing if the church law and civil law were completely in harmony[/i]...in polisci we discussed, along the lines of pope st. genesius, how [b]there is a rightful seperation between church and state...[/b]we cannot have papal ceasarism...what we need are the body of government, the one body, being sustained by 2 lungs...seperate but equally important...one being the church and one the civil law...the body functions best when the lung function equally and in harmony...and to emphasize the need for proper seperation..the body could not really function at all if the one lung tried to impose on the other....

Edited July 3, 2005 by Semperviva

[Semperviva]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Jul 2 2005, 06:29 PM']well... I saw the new Batman movie... and you know... Batman's just so much cooler now


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[/quote]
[b]................ and christian bale was just as cool before he ever became batman............ [/b]