Alberto Gonzalez

[Jaime]

In the wake of Justice O'Connor's resignation, US Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez's name has come up as a possible nominee. Gonzalez is a close friend of the Bush family, a trusted advisor and he served on the Texas Supreme Court.

What would you think if Gonzalez was Bush's nominee? Good thing or bad thing?


(I would have started a poll but I've demonstrated that I have absolutely no idea how to make one properly)

[philothea]

Oh, erm.

I really don't like him at all. He seems... cruel and vindictive.

OTOH, he'd be harmless (and possibly useful) in the Supreme Court, unlike his current position.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 3 2005, 10:28 AM']Oh, erm.

I really don't like him at all.  He seems... cruel and vindictive.

OTOH, he'd be harmless (and possibly useful) in the Supreme Court, unlike his current position.
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Just out of curiousity - how is he "cruel and vindictive"?

[philothea]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 3 2005, 11:03 AM']Just out of curiousity - how is he "cruel and vindictive"?
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His apparent pro-torture stance.

[Apotheoun]

I would prefer a person who is unequivocally pro-life.

[url="http://www.lifenews.com/nat1399.html"]Possible Gonzales Pick for Supreme Court Worries Pro-Life Advocates[/url]

[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 3 2005, 11:19 AM']His apparent pro-torture stance.
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Well, I guess that would make him apparently cruel... but vindictive?

[philothea]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 3 2005, 11:33 AM']Well, I guess that would make him apparently cruel... but vindictive?
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Sorry for the lapse. As a prosecutor, Gonzales appeared to seek convictions and revenge rather than than truth and justice.

I acknowledge that I may be mistaken. This is just my impression from the news and discussion I have been unable to avoid.

[Jaime]

Wouldn't folks feel rather betrayed if Bush nominated Gonzalez?

[Cam42]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 3 2005, 10:28 PM']Wouldn't folks feel rather betrayed if Bush nominated Gonzalez?
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Did Bush run as a pro-life candidate? NO, he did not. I don't think that they will feel betrayed.

But, I think that there is something else going on. I think that there is a whitewashing of the idea that Bush is pro-choice. If he nominates Gonzalez AGAIN, it shouldn't be a shock, he already nominated him once. Why not again? Gonzalez embodies the ideals of the George W. Bush family.

[Jaime]

[quote]Did Bush run as a pro-life candidate? NO, he did not. I don't think that they will feel betrayed.[/quote]

I disagree Camster. While he didn't run primarily on this issue, I think putting a prolifer on the bench was the prime reason many conservatives voted for Bush. If Gonzalez were to get the nomination, I would think that a lot of Bush supporters would feel betrayed.

If Bush nominates Gonzalez or a moderate, I think this would be a failed presidency.

[toledo_jesus]

we'll see, but I don't believe there will be any kind of progress here, only regression. Let's put Andrew Napolitano on the bench.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jul 4 2005, 08:14 AM']Did Bush run as a pro-life candidate?  NO, he did not.  I don't think that they will feel betrayed.

But, I think that there is something else going on.  I think that there is a whitewashing of the idea that Bush is pro-choice.  If he nominates Gonzalez AGAIN, it shouldn't be a shock, he already nominated him once.  Why not again?  Gonzalez embodies the ideals of the George W. Bush family.
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Pro-lifers and "pro-family" "religious conservatives" voted overwhelmingly for Bush in the last election, and were a major factor in his re-election.
The possiblity of pro-life judges was a big reason many voted for Bush rather than Kerry.

If Bush chose a pro-abortion candidate, many would indeed feel betrayed.

[Carrie]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 3 2005, 11:28 PM']Wouldn't folks feel rather betrayed if Bush nominated Gonzalez?
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Yes!

I am not a fan of Mr. Bush. It took a good deal of convincing for me to vote for him and even then, it was based on his views on abortion only.

I wouldn't dream of calling him pro-life (i have issues with his death penalty stance), but he was the only candidate with a chance of winning that was against abortion

He was the only candidate who I thought would appoint pro-life judges if anyone in the supreme court retired. That is one of the [b]major[/b] reasons I voted for him. I was confident that he would do so. To hear that Gonzalez is a possibility does indeed make me feel betrayed.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 5 2005, 02:44 PM']Yes!

I wouldn't dream of calling him pro-life (i have issues with his death penalty stance), but he was the only candidate with a chance of winning that was against abortion
[/quote]

The Church has long approved of using the death penalty. Even JPII did not say the death penalty was intrinsically wrong, but his opinion was that it was not necessary in today's society. This is in contrast to abortion, which the Church has always declared evil in all circumstances.

To say someone is not pro-life because he supports the death penalty is to say that the Catholic Church and the vast majority of Popes through history were not pro-life.

I'm getting sick of having to say this. The false equivication of abortion and the death penalty is a ploy by liberals to get Catholics to support pro-abortion politicians.

[Carrie]

Yes, I know all that.

The way the Church advocates usage of the death penalty and the way Bush advocates usage of the death penalty are very different from each other.

[quote]I wouldn't dream of calling him pro-life (i have issues with his death penalty stance) [/quote]

Notice in my quote I said I have issues with [b]his[/b] death penalty stance. I didn't criticize the Church's stance. Like I said, two very different views.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 5 2005, 03:03 PM']Yes, I know all that.

The way the Church advocates usage of the death penalty and the way Bush advocates usage of the death penalty are very different from each other. 
Notice in my quote I said I have issues with [b]his[/b] death penalty stance.  I didn't criticize the Church's stance.  Like I said, two very different views.
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How are they different? (I'm aware that John Paul II was not in favor of the death penalty, but all Popes before him had no problem with it. The death penalty was widely practiced in Christendom with full Church approval.)

[Carrie]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 5 2005, 05:16 PM']How are they different?  (I'm aware that John Paul II was not in favor of the death penalty, but all Popes before him had no problem with it.  The death penalty was widely practiced in Christendom with full Church approval.)
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While Mr. Bush was governor of Texas, the rate of people who died via death penalty was higher than the rest of the country. And yet crime was still extremely high. I think the usage there was extreme.

I guess as I'm in the JPII generation, I've always viewed the Church's position on the death penalty to be in accordance with JPII. If I'm leaving out the rest of history, forgive me.

But my position and opinion of Mr. Bush does not change.

And we've hijacked hot stuff's thread. I'm afraid he's going to flog us.

[Jaime]

[quote]And we've hijacked hot stuff's thread. I'm afraid he's going to flog us. laugh.gif

[/quote]

Actually that is very pertinent. Who was Bush's advisor on Texas death penalty cases? Alberto Gonzalez.

[Carrie]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Jul 5 2005, 05:41 PM']Actually that is very pertinent.  Who was Bush's advisor on Texas death penalty cases?  Alberto Gonzalez.
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Thank you!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 5 2005, 03:35 PM']While Mr. Bush was governor of Texas, the rate of people who died via death penalty was higher than the rest of the country.  And yet crime was still extremely high.  I think the usage there was extreme.

I guess as I'm in the JPII generation, I've always viewed the Church's position on the death penalty to be in accordance with JPII.  If I'm leaving out the rest of history, forgive me. 

But my position and opinion of Mr. Bush does not change.

And we've hijacked hot stuff's thread.  I'm afraid he's going to flog us. 
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Ok, after this post I'll stop my hijacking, but I thought I'd point out that in medieval (Catholic) Europe, the death penalty was applied much more widely than in Texas under Bush (with approval from the Church).

For what St. Thomas Aquinas said about the death penalty, go [url="http://pewforum.org/deathpenalty/resources/reader/11.php3"]here.[/url]