plastic surgery

[point5]

Is it a sin? Church teaching?

[avemaria40]

It would prob be considered vanity, but if it's therapeutic, then no, it would not. I am getting plastic surgery on my gums which will make my smile look nicer, but that is only a side benefit. I'm only doing it b/c it will benefit my oral health in which case, it would not be a sin. but if a woman got breast implants simply to look prettier, or to please men, for example, it probably would be a sin b/c of vanity, but i'm not entirely sure what the church teaches on this one.

Edited July 16, 2005 by avemaria40

[Socrates]

Take one look at Michael Jackson and tell me what you think.

[philothea]

I don't believe cosmetic surgery itself is a sin, but vanity is.... so, it would depend on the motive.

I think the same goes for most appearance-enhancing stuff, like hair dye, make up, "control" or padded clothing, etc.

[Socrates]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 15 2005, 08:06 PM']I don't believe cosmetic surgery itself is a sin, but vanity is.... so, it would depend on the motive.

I think the same goes for most appearance-enhancing stuff, like hair dye, make up, "control" or padded clothing, etc.
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Carving up and permanently changing one's flesh is an entirely differnt matter from such things as clothes and temprorary make-up.
To compare cutting up one's face or getting a boob job to wearing a flattering suit or dress is just absurd!

Unneccesary plastic surgery is always sinful unless done to correct an actual debilitating disfigurement (as it was orginally used for after WWI - to repair severe disfigurement caused by war injuries).

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 15 2005, 08:18 PM']Carving up and permanently changing one's flesh is an entirely differnt matter from such things as clothes and temprorary make-up.
To compare cutting up one's face or getting a boob job to wearing a flattering suit or dress is just absurd!
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I was talking about things like corsets and padded bras.

It looks like the same motivation to me; I do not know if there's a major difference.

[cmotherofpirl]

Intentions would be the determining factor whether something is sinful or not.

[crusader1234]

I agree with Cmotherofpearl. Nobody can judge anybody else. And, Socrates, what you said is EXTREMELY uncharitable. Michael Jackson almost certainly has Body Dysmoprhic Disorder, which is a mental illness. Making jokes about people is never cool.

[Socrates]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 15 2005, 09:21 PM']I was talking about things like corsets and padded bras.

It looks like the same motivation to me; I do not know if there's a major difference.
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Corsets and padded bras do not involve cutting and mutilating the flesh. This is a major difference.

[Kaeldra]

I think its situational. In general though, I think that yeah, it would be a sin of vanity...like boob jobs and stuff. Though I don't think its always wrong. And some people I think are justified in doing it. We really can't judge

[philothea]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 16 2005, 05:23 PM']Corsets and padded bras do not involve cutting and mutilating the flesh.  This is a major difference.
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I don't understand why. (I'm not trying to argue with you; I want to understand.)

Elsewhere tatoos were discussed, and no one appeared to think they were sinful. Is ear piercing bad? I'm pretty sure I've never heard any Church teaching against it. Boys are circumcised, for "cosmetic" reasons. Why is vanity with a knife worse than vanity with foam and elastic?

[StColette]

Q: Does the Catholic Church have a stand was on plastic surgery?

A: The Church has not dealt with this issue in magisterial documents. However, moral theology would seem to offer the following considerations:

Plastic surgery would seem to be warranted if it would provide a significant therapeutic benefit in some regard, either physical (e.g., reconstructive surgery to restore function or utility in cases of accident or birth defect) or psychological. This is provided that the procedure does not damage some other equal or greater good and provided that it is not intrinsically immoral.

Plastic surgery would seem to be permitted —even without significant therapeutic effect—provided that it did not damage a significant good and provided that the procedure is not intrinsically immoral.

Plastic surgery would seem to be impermissible if it damaged a good greater than that to be achieved, being venial if the difference in the goods were light and potentially mortal if the difference in the goods were grave.

Goods that could be damaged by undertaking plastic surgery are varied. They might involve harming oneself—one’s own physical, psychological, or spiritual health—or they might involve harming others, such as being financially unable to provide for one’s family in a proper and timely manner.

As always, if a medical procedure is intrinsically immoral—such as so-called trans-gendering surgeries—it cannot be performed.

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp[/url]

[Socrates]

[quote name='philothea' date='Jul 16 2005, 07:56 PM']I don't understand why.  (I'm not trying to argue with you; I want to understand.)

Elsewhere tatoos were discussed, and no one appeared to think they were sinful.  Is ear piercing bad?  I'm pretty sure I've never heard any Church teaching against it.  Boys are circumcised, for "cosmetic" reasons.  Why is vanity with a knife worse than vanity with foam and elastic?
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While others disagree, I definitely think tattoos and piercings are problematic. Circumcism's a whole other debate, though I've never heard of anyone doing this for "cosmetic" reasons. The reasons given concern health and cleanliness (or religious reasons), rather than "looking good."

I've read a number of responses to this question from orthodox Catholic sources, and they all agreed that unnecessary cosmetic surgery was mutilation. It can only be done if there is an significant reason for it (correcting a serious deformity, or repairing an injury). The body is sacred, and shouldn't be cut up without serious reason.

[Kaeldra]

you think tattoos and piercings are problematic? why? Sure maybe in excess, but I dont see how they are bad in moderation (I dont have any of either btw)

[infinitelord1]

its never ok do get plasitc surgery in any case......even for someone who is handicapped. Lets take getting a boob job for example.......its pretty obvious that this is a sin of vanity. This also appies to handicapped people........for them to get any type of plasic surgery done would also be a sin of vanity. Frankly, i believe in any case of plasic surgery........the individuals basing their self-esteem off the flesh rather than the soul. But as human beings our feelings overshadow morality. If i had my face disoriented in a war by a grenade or something.......i would be inclined to get plastic surgery as most people would. I dont think the sin is mortal unless it has something to do with immoral sex........its funny that i admit to this since i just bought size enhancement pills for my penis. Man, im starting to question this to deeply........i might go to hell for the penis enlargement pills.......hopefully god will consider my motives........i dont really care about having a large johnson......im just doin it to try it out and see if they work.

Edited July 17, 2005 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

:pebcam: :saber: :jesus: :smoker:

just a few cool smiley's thats all.

[Semperviva]

accident/reconstructive= of course OK

slight improvements to natural born disfigurments or irregularities to increase confidence, etc= i think totaly fine

desiring to be center of attention = bad

2 cents on plastic surgry

[Quietfire]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Jul 17 2005, 02:02 AM']its never ok do get plasitc surgery in any case......even for someone who is handicapped. Lets take getting a boob job for example.......its pretty obvious that this is a sin of vanity. This also appies to handicapped people........for them to get any type of plasic surgery done would also be a sin of vanity. Frankly, i believe in any case of plasic surgery........the individuals basing their self-esteem off the flesh rather than the soul. But as human beings our feelings overshadow morality. If i had my face disoriented in a war by a grenade or something.......i would be inclined to get plastic surgery as most people would. I dont think the sin is mortal unless it has something to do with immoral sex........its funny that i admit to this since i just bought size enhancement pills for my penis. Man, im starting to question this to deeply........i might go to hell for the penis enlargement pills.......hopefully god will consider my motives........i dont really care about having a large johnson......im just doin it to try it out and see if they work.
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Even for someone who is handicapped, eh?
A cleft palate?.
"Strawberries" (cant remember the medical term for them-they are small red bumps that grow as the person gets older) that hinder eating or vision? Or just grow to large as to affect the self esteem of the individual.
What is your definition of handicapped / as concerning surgery?

A know a young girl who is handicapped (physically and mentally) and received surgery to help correct her gait. Although the doctors couldnt 'prove' it 100% one way or the other, they felt that by doing the surgery it would make a difference of her walking vs. using a wheelchair. Is that vanity to you?

I mean, Im sitting here and Im wondering what exactly would someone who is handicapped need as far as larger breasts, or fuller lips. I personally dont know one handicapped person who is concerned with such shallow thoughts.
I do, on the other hand, know plenty of persons who are handicapped who would love to fix that drooping eyelid because it is almost impossible to see out of that eye, although some may see it as a chance to get some 'facework' done. Or are willing to endure a full lower body cast if there is a chance that they may be able to walk with a cane as opposed to using a full walker with AFO's or a wheelchair, even though some think that it isnt necessary since they will still require some assistance.

Or what....what is your criteria for a handicapped person in reference to needless plastic surgery?

Really.
Id love to know.

Oh, but before you answer. Know this..


I have not one, but two handicapped nieces.

They both have undergone plenty of surgery. And still require more. So tread carefully.


In charity
Pax

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Jul 17 2005, 12:42 PM']Even for someone who is handicapped, eh?
A cleft palate?. 
"Strawberries" (cant remember the medical term for them-they are small red bumps that grow as the person gets older) that hinder eating or vision? Or just grow to large as to affect the self esteem of the individual.
What is your definition of handicapped / as concerning surgery?

A know a young girl who is handicapped (physically and mentally) and received surgery to help correct her gait.  Although the doctors couldnt 'prove' it 100% one way or the other, they felt that by doing the surgery it would make a difference of her walking vs. using a wheelchair.  Is that vanity to you?

I mean, Im sitting here and Im wondering what exactly would someone who is handicapped need as far as larger breasts, or fuller lips.  I personally dont know one handicapped person who is concerned with such shallow thoughts.
I do, on the other hand, know plenty of persons who are handicapped who would love to fix that drooping eyelid because it is almost impossible to see out of that eye, although some may see it as a chance to get some 'facework' done.  Or are willing to endure a full lower body cast if there is a chance that they may be able to walk with a cane as opposed to using a full walker with AFO's or a wheelchair, even though some think that it isnt necessary since they will still require some assistance. 

Or what....what is your criteria for a handicapped person in reference to needless plastic surgery?

Really.
Id love to know.

Oh, but before you answer.  Know this..
I have not one, but two handicapped nieces. 

They both have undergone plenty of surgery.  And still require more.  So tread carefully.
In charity
Pax
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[/quote]
you said that the doctors felt that by doing the surgery it would help her walk. she is not in any position to really make a rational decision in a case like this. I dont think this young girl was really worried about her appearence to other people she just wanted to walk. That is not vanity. She is certainly not basing her self-esteem off of this......she is seeking a more comfortable life-style. I guess in the last post i was thinking of like people who were burned in fire and such.

Edited July 17, 2005 by infinitelord1

[infinitelord1]

i guess i went to far to the extreme on this...........i think its wrong when plastic surgery is done because of self-esteem issues. thank you for making me realize i was wrong.

Edited July 17, 2005 by infinitelord1