point5 Posted July 18, 2005 Author Posted July 18, 2005 Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity?
StColette Posted July 18, 2005 Posted July 18, 2005 [quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity? [right][snapback]648095[/snapback][/right] [/quote] read this Q: Does the Catholic Church have a stand was on plastic surgery? A: The Church has not dealt with this issue in magisterial documents. However, moral theology would seem to offer the following considerations: [b]Plastic surgery would seem to be warranted if it would provide a significant therapeutic benefit in some regard, either physical (e.g., reconstructive surgery to restore function or utility in cases of accident or birth defect) or psychological. This is provided that the procedure does not damage some other equal or greater good and provided that it is not intrinsically immoral.[/b] Plastic surgery would seem to be permitted —even without significant therapeutic effect—provided that it did not damage a significant good and provided that the procedure is not intrinsically immoral. Plastic surgery would seem to be impermissible if it damaged a good greater than that to be achieved, being venial if the difference in the goods were light and potentially mortal if the difference in the goods were grave. Goods that could be damaged by undertaking plastic surgery are varied. They might involve harming oneself—one’s own physical, psychological, or spiritual health—or they might involve harming others, such as being financially unable to provide for one’s family in a proper and timely manner. As always, if a medical procedure is intrinsically immoral—such as so-called trans-gendering surgeries—it cannot be performed. [url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101qq.asp[/url] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the situations I could consider breast augmentation okay to get is if a woman has had breast cancer and has had to have her breats removed. I could understand how this could have serious effects on how a woman would look at herself and it could cause a lot of psychological problems.
Socrates Posted July 18, 2005 Posted July 18, 2005 [quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity? [right][snapback]648095[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Probably only for reconstructive purposes, such as after a masectomy (did I say that right?).
philothea Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 18 2005, 12:02 PM'][quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM'] Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity? [right][snapback]648095[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Probably only for reconstructive purposes, such as after a masectomy (did I say that right?). [right][snapback]648113[/snapback][/right] [/quote] (Ahem. "Boob job?" I'd prefer a bit more tact...) BTW, were any of you condemning these procedures aware that 50% of cosmetic breast surgeries are [i]reductions[/i]? Is it vanity to want less guys ogling you? I think StColette and Semperviva are right. There are a many potentially good reasons. (And before you think I'm defending myself, I've never had cosmetic surgery, and I don't plan to.)
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='point5' date='Jul 18 2005, 11:54 AM']Is it possible for a woman to get a boob job without it being a sin of vanity? [right][snapback]648095[/snapback][/right] [/quote] if she had breast cancer or has back problems and needs a reduction i don't see why not... mstectomy could throw off her center of balance or just might feel like shes not a real woman anymore (women get depressed about breast removal from cancer all the time and rightly so) to me seems perfectly fine to wanna regain balance and feel normal or womanly again after a mastectomy and such, not like i know firsthand, but so i read...
avemaria40 Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong
StColette Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:29 PM']i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong [right][snapback]650226[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Exactly ! I didn't think about breat reductions at all when this subject came up. I don't think men understand sometimes that if a woman is rather umm "blessed" it can cause back pain.
Socrates Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:29 PM']i agree w/philothea and semperviva, if a woman gets surgery done on her chest to be more comfortable, to feel more womanly, or to cut down on guys leering at her, its ok, b/c it s not vain to want that, as long as she's not attracting the wrong kind of attention, why should it be wrong [right][snapback]650226[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Again, I said I had no problem with cosmetic surgery after a masectomy or other injury, and I also have no problem with breast reduction surgery if it is to help with back/spinal problems (in which case it is not really "cosmetic"). However, I would say that it is just as wrong to have reductive surgery "to cut down on guys leering" as it is to get implants for appearance's sake (which could easily be justified as "to make her feel more womanly") These both involve surgically altering one's body simply for appearance. If the intent is to make one LESS attractive, this still doesn't justify it. If this is really a problem, she could try dressing more modestly, etc. (And does anyone actually have surgery for that purpose, anyway???)
avemaria40 Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 but what if a reduction was to keep guyz from entertaining lustful thoughts? wat if that was her purpose for getting it in the first place?
StColette Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 Or what about if the size of the breasts were causing extreme back pain?
Socrates Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 19 2005, 05:50 PM']but what if a reduction was to keep guyz from entertaining lustful thoughts? wat if that was her purpose for getting it in the first place? [right][snapback]650243[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Again, I sincerely doubt any woman has surgery for this purpose, so this is probably all in the realm of far-fetched speculation! Again, I said there is no problem if this is done for serious medical reasons (back trouble, etc.) However, if this unlikely scenario were real, I'd have advise that young lady to get to a psychologist (or priest) first. This would seem to cross the line from genuine modesty/purity to an unhealthy Manichean-type seeing the body as evil. A woman's body is a beautiful thing and a gift from God, and should not be surgically altered just to prevent some guys from reacting lustfully to it. If she dresses and behaves modestly, she should not have a problem. It would be unlikely to actually prevent their lust, which comes from themselves, and will not go away just because a particular woman's breasts are reduced in size! It's not just breasts that are objects of lust on a woman's body, and not every man actually prefers huge breasts. Men actually vary on what breast size they find attractive. Some may actually be l[b]ess[/b] inclined to lust after a woman too "top-heavy." Not to get too graphic here, but it's actually the whole waist/hips/butt/legs proportions that are more important in triggering lust/sexual attraction. To sum up, all woman need do is practice modesty and purity. This will have a stronger and more postitive affect than cutting herself up to prevent ogling. Women need not be ashamed of their bodies because of some creepy men. (just this male's perspective)
Quietfire Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote](And does anyone actually have surgery for that purpose, anyway???)[/quote] Yes. I knew someone who did. Her motivating factor were both. They were too large, and she knew she would be faced with back problems later in life and she said it made her skin crawl when men "spoke" to her breasts, and didnt address her face on.
Socrates Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='StColette' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:00 PM']Or what about if the size of the breasts were causing extreme back pain? [right][snapback]650250[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I've already answered this! [quote]I also have no problem with breast reduction surgery if it is to help with back/spinal problems (in which case it is not really "cosmetic").[/quote]
Thy Geekdom Come Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 19 2005, 07:10 PM']Again, I sincerely doubt any woman has surgery for this purpose, so this is probably all in the realm of far-fetched speculation! Again, I said there is no problem if this is done for serious medical reasons (back trouble, etc.) [right][snapback]650261[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Actually, I know of several women who have at least considered breast reduction surgery for that purpose...you know...not wanting to be objectified? Do you have any idea how much women dread being objectified by men? Every single woman has experienced it and hates it.
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 (edited) [quote name='StColette' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:00 PM']Or what about if the size of the breasts were causing extreme back pain? [right][snapback]650250[/snapback][/right] [/quote] two of my friends had reductions for this purpose they were sick of wearing like three suffocating bras at a time in order to not be in pain-.......ok, lol......interesting debate...people get OTHER body parts removed/reduced routinely because they cause pain......i[color=purple]ts like a totally common medical procedure to remove things OR IN this case reduce the mass of that which causes pain as long as you do not harm an essential part of the being[/color] ... OH never mind Soc this is not directed at you... oh but yeh know Soc, i don't know any girls who got reductions for "leering-reduction"...but i suppose such a thing could have happened... Edited July 19, 2005 by Semperviva
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:14 PM']Do you have any idea how much women dread being objectified by men? Every single woman has experienced it and hates it. [right][snapback]650265[/snapback][/right] [/quote] so true...
Socrates Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 (edited) Never mind, problem solved. Edited July 19, 2005 by Socrates
StColette Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:22 PM']HOw many times must I repeat??? I am NOT against this for exteremt back pain!!! [right][snapback]650270[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Just one more time please
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:22 PM']Never mind, problem solved. [right][snapback]650270[/snapback][/right] [/quote] aaw poor little guy...
Socrates Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Raphael' date='Jul 19 2005, 06:14 PM']Actually, I know of several women who have at least considered breast reduction surgery for that purpose...you know...not wanting to be objectified? Do you have any idea how much women dread being objectified by men? Every single woman has experienced it and hates it. [right][snapback]650265[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not saying this isn't a problem - I just don't think the ends justifies the means here. I think the human body is good, and shouldn't be unnecessarily surgically altered. I think the surgery route here is unnecessary and misguided.
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