Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Author Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 18 2005, 06:17 PM']but i don't think all rock is the vehicle of antireligion b/c of the bands i just pointed out. [right][snapback]648634[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i am basically struggling alot with this right now-- its so powerful we[i] should[/i] use it for the truth, but its so powerful that its also so easy to let it consume you... the pope even says rock music reduces you to an almost animal level by reducing your free will and placing you in the moment so as to take away your conception of consequences of your actions... just bothers me if this is true how can it ever be good at all? i wonder if he means it is anti-religion in that rock music has an unsettled ness and disquiet or perhaps an inherent rebellion to it which hinders us from fostering the internal silence, to establish continual communion with God or something? and this rebellion being the dictim of satan....[i]non serviam...[/i] am i just going psycho here? ave do u know what works the fathers discuss music in? i have read Plato and Benedict XVI on music but it would be interesting to read the fathers too...
avemaria40 Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 I read in the book "Why Do Catholics Do That?" that St. jerome was against singing in Christian liturgy b/c he was afraid it went against sobriety and asceticism, while St. Augustine was a little wishy washy b/c he didn't know if it was appropriate but he believed that singing could have good use and that all of them agreed on banning instrumental music from liturgy b/c the instruments were what u played at orgies and alot of pagan cults that endorsed orgies had depicted their gods playing music. But other fathers, like St. Basil and Cassiodorus believed that music is beautiful and although u had to be careful with it b/c it was powerful, u can put it to good use in liturgy, and also, as for rebellion in rock music, aren't Christians supposed to rebel from the worlds dogmas and follow those of Christ?
philothea Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Jul 18 2005, 02:34 PM'][quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Jul 17 2005, 11:51 AM'] I wonder what my collection would "say" about me..... I have just about everything out there... hmmmm [right][snapback]646389[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Same here. If people judged me by my music, well, let's just say it wouldn't be pretty. [right][snapback]648402[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hrmn, yeah, me too. Like a proper Chicagoan, I have "everything but country" ... but all the rock/alternative stuff I buy seems to have parental warnings all over it.
philothea Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 18 2005, 07:04 PM']i am basically struggling alot with this right now-- its so powerful we[i] should[/i] use it for the truth, but its so powerful that its also so easy to let it consume you... the pope even says rock music reduces you to an almost animal level by reducing your free will and placing you in the moment so as to take away your conception of consequences of your actions... just bothers me if this is true how can it ever be good at all? [right][snapback]648686[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This sounds like a concert or party setting to me. [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 18 2005, 07:04 PM']i wonder if he means it is anti-religion in that rock music has an unsettled ness and disquiet or perhaps an inherent rebellion to it which hinders us from fostering the internal silence, to establish continual communion with God or something? and this rebellion being the dictim of satan....[i]non serviam...[/i] am i just going psycho here? ave do u know what works the fathers discuss music in? i have read Plato and Benedict XVI on music but it would be interesting to read the fathers too... [right][snapback]648686[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I can get equally obsessed or distracted with any kind of music. I think its the social aspect of rock that is worrisome. Of course, it will depend on a person's age and personality, whether music affects them badly.
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Author Posted July 19, 2005 ok, this text I found [b]says it was heavy metal[/b] he condemned nd that it wasen't him specifically but a Vatican spokesman. hhhmmmm... In November of '96, Cardinal Ratzinger warned that [b]heavy metal [/b]was an "instrument of the Devil" and endangered young people's souls. The future Pope singled out these groups as the worst offenders... Pink Floyd The Rolling Stones Queen Led Zeppelin Black Sabbath The Beatles Alice Cooper AC/DC The Eagles He called upon members of [b]heavy metal bands[/b] to "purify themselves" and posited that AC/DC "referred not to alternating current or even bisexuality, but to the satanic phrase 'Antichrist, Death to Christ.'" well the heavy metal thing makes more sense at least...
Carrie Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 [quote]Hrmn, yeah, me too. Like a proper Chicagoan, I have "everything but country" ... but all the rock/alternative stuff I buy seems to have parental warnings all over it. [right][snapback]649512[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Exactly! I don't do country and I don't do rap. But I love alot of other kinds of music, especially alternative and rock. There's nothing like a good mosh pit!
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Author Posted July 19, 2005 (edited) Philothea, you're right he does seem to focus more on rock music in a concert setting, but still... this is a summation of what he says in Spirit of the Liturgy: Perhaps the most interesting part of this discourse comes with the author's observations on the link between sacred music and the logos - the Word revealed in Christ. He points out that from the beginning the saving actions of God narrated in Scripture formed the main theme of liturgical music - a fact which has given singing clear priority over merely instrumental music in the liturgy. Nevertheless, since music transcends the rational level of mere speech, it also gives an opening to the action of the Spirit who intercedes for us "with sighs too deep for words" (Rom. 8: 26): the Word thus supersedes mere human words, in what Ratzinger calls a "sober inebriation" (p.150). Finally, since it was the Word which created the cosmos, Ratzinger discerns a link between the beauty of music, whose melodies and harmonies are based (as the ancient Pythagoreans realized) on mathematical laws and proportions which are also reflected throughout the universe, and the glory of Creation. If the words of liturgical song proclaim mainly the work of the Logos for our Redemption (salvation history), the music itself proclaims His might, wisdom and power in the entire cosmos. Cardinal Ratzinger excoriates (p. 148), as a symptom of contemporary Western cultural decline, the current popularity of "rock" music among the young, linking it directly to their alienation from true worship: [b]"Rock" . . . is the expression of elemental passions[/b], and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. [b]People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe[/b]. Edited July 19, 2005 by Semperviva
avemaria40 Posted July 19, 2005 Posted July 19, 2005 but if it leads u closer to Christ, would it be a bad thing? I can understand why the stuff about sex, drugs ,swears, antireligion, satanist stuff should be avoided. But ppl don't always come to Christ in a church at first, nor even through another person but from music and stuff. My first real experience that God was calling me was watching a movie. Also, i no music transcends human words and rock can be cultish at times but not all the time, look at seven sorrows.
Semperviva Posted July 19, 2005 Author Posted July 19, 2005 Wow, thats cool Ave about the movie. At the Eighth International Church Music Congress in Rome in 1986, for example, Ratzinger blasted rock music as a “vehicle of anti-religion”. He said rock and roll is a secular variant of an age-old ecstatic religion, in which man “lowers the barriers of individuality and personality” to “liberate himself from the burden of consciousness”. [b]Rock is thus “the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the redemption”. [/b]
Semperviva Posted July 20, 2005 Author Posted July 20, 2005 [i]Rock is thus “the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the redemption”. [/i] no-one disagrees? interesting...
infinitelord1 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 i dug up this old cd that ive had for a while......the groups name is "snot" they were around in the mid 90's i think. this type of music is kinda like rage against the machine but more hardcore. Although i like it a lot i have to admit that it brings out a lot of anger in me.
avemaria40 Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 but i listen to U2 and they're a rock band and when i sing "Gloria", one of their songs, i feel closer to Jesus, so i don't think rock is anti christian
bx_racer Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) alright if ur gonna argue you gotta know what ur talking about cuz rolling stones is not heavy metal, its not even metal. Edited July 20, 2005 by bx_racer
bx_racer Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 oh and by the way i heard it was after Christ devil comes for the ac/dc so that might not be true, people could just be making it up
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Semperviva' date='Jul 19 2005, 11:19 AM']ok, this text I found [b]says it was heavy metal[/b] he condemned nd that it wasen't him specifically but a Vatican spokesman. hhhmmmm... In November of '96, Cardinal Ratzinger warned that [b]heavy metal [/b]was an "instrument of the Devil" and endangered young people's souls. The future Pope singled out these groups as the worst offenders... Pink Floyd The Rolling Stones Queen Led Zeppelin Black Sabbath The Beatles Alice Cooper AC/DC The Eagles He called upon members of [b]heavy metal bands[/b] to "purify themselves" and posited that AC/DC "referred not to alternating current or even bisexuality, but to the satanic phrase 'Antichrist, Death to Christ.'" well the heavy metal thing makes more sense at least... [right][snapback]649909[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Where is this text? Btw - -even if acurrate, this document would definately not be considered infallible. Interesting -it talks about "yong people's souls," yet these bands were all old (or defunct) in '96. (and most of them are not considered "heavy metal") Personally, I wouldn't spend too muc time worrying about it. It you think particular music is having a negative effect on you, get rid of it, but I wouldn't waste to much time worrying about the details of this "text." Edited July 20, 2005 by Socrates
Socrates Posted July 20, 2005 Posted July 20, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Jul 20 2005, 01:10 PM']Rolling Stones arent defunct but they are old [right][snapback]651152[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I said old [b]or[/b] defunct. Beatles are defunct.
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