I'm Angry

[Anna]

As I understand it, the Wiccans have only one commandment, (paraphrasing) "As long as it harms none, do as you will."

So, how does sucking the brains out of a partially-born baby's skull, "harm none?" (Seems to me that getting your brains sucked out would be harmful! )

Before getting all caught up in the emotionalism of the argument, they should first investigate the facts of what they're supporting. I wonder if they even know what a partial birth abortion is, much less any other form of abortion or even contraception!

Wow, am I glad to be Catholic. :)

Edited November 19, 2003 by Anna

[Carrie]

Anna, I was wondering the same thing about the Wiccan girl. She always says, do as you will, as long as you harm none. I argued that point back to her and she claimed that noone was being harmed because the "fetus" wasn't yet a baby, so she doesn't consider the baby a person.

I explained to them what partial birth abortion was and they brushed it off as if the method wasn't important. I don't understand how someone cannot be appalled when they hear about the way these babies are murdered. I think people try and convince themselves that the babies aren't people and so they feel nothing, which is just not true. Maybe just maybe they'll think about it.

Everyone, thank you so much for the prayers. I'm sure I'll need them as I have to see these girls everyday.

Lord, help me to be strong.

[nikkan_hanil]

Well Anna, we cannot judge any sort of religious group from a single person. I can't really say that they all share tha whole abortion carp but I do know for a fact that most Wiccans lack some of the morals that Christians have like abstinence of sexual activity with another. <_<

[BLAZEr]

Carrie, next time . . . bring pictures . . . http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/ab...mages/index.htm

[hyperdulia again]

:(

[Good Friday]

Carrie:

Of course we know that the Catholic Church is the fullness of truth, but take comfort in knowing that you do not have to convert these girls to Catholicism in order to convert them to being pro-life. For the Catholic and the Jehovah's Witness, abortion is expressly forbidden by their religions. If they're going to claim these titles, they should practice the tenets of the religions. You may want to remind both of them that their religions are quite explicit in teaching that abortion is very wrong, and even the greatest evil in the world today.

The Wiccan will be a bit more difficult. With her, I think convincing her that the baby is a living human being may do the trick. If she has any intention of holding to the "prime directive" of her religion, it will. As others have pointed out, Wiccans believe that they can do what they want, but provided that it harms no one. Clearly, abortion murders an innocent human being, and convincing her of the humanity of the baby in the womb could sway her to the pro-life side. There are pro-life neo-pagans, even though they're few and far between. Some of them actually do practice their only rule; others only spout it at people so they'll believe Wicca is a benign religion. I'd imagine the latter is true for this girl, but who knows? More than likely, at her age, she is far more interested in the spells and magic aspect of Wicca than the religion itself. More than likely, she is only interested in the "rebellion" aspect of Wicca... as was I at her age.

But you should still continue to point out that her religion teaches she they can't harm anybody, and continue to stand by the fact that the baby in the womb is a living human being. This is a fact, supported by science. It is not just a religious issue.

[cmotherofpirl]

Give her a copy of the unaborted socrates for christmas/winter solistice

[Seatbelt Blue]

"The 'True Path' is found in indulgence instead of abstinence."

and

"Do as thou wilt."

You forgot the one caveat to all of that - "If it harms no one."

[Carrie]

Good Friday, thanks so much for your advice. You're right in that trying to show her that the baby is in fact a human being, is the first step.

Blazer, pictures are exactly what I have. I brought in a bunch of flyers and pamphlets about abortion that I have from Priests for Life. Tons of info! I'm going to show this to the girls today. A little bit of information (and patience) can go a long way!

Thanks everyone for your help!

[marielapin]

Let us know how it goes Carrie! I'm really happy that you are standing up for the babes in the womb! I know its not easy!

[Anna]

You know, it's always very interesting to turn the argument around and discuss the baby as if it was a kitten or a puppy.

I mean it!

Really, ask if a mother cat was giving birth, and one of the feline fetuses head popped out, would it be ok to crush the skull and remove the brains...as long as the rest of the kitten's body hadn't emerged from its mother yet?

Oh, how sick! How gross!

Who could do such a thing to a poor, defenseless little kitten?!!!

Then, you've won the argument. ;)

[Carrie]

ohhh, that's so good! I'm going to use that!

I'm going to lunch with them in about a half hour. I'll let you know how it went when I get back.

[Jake Huether]

You know, it's always very interesting to turn the argument around and discuss the baby as if it was a kitten or a puppy.

I mean it!

Really, ask if a mother cat was giving birth, and one of the feline fetuses head popped out, would it be ok to crush the skull and remove the brains...as long as the rest of the kitten's body hadn't emerged from its mother yet?

Oh, how sick!  How gross!

Who could do such a thing to a poor, defenseless little kitten?!!!

Then, you've won the argument.

You're exactly right Anna. That has been baffling me for the longest time.

These same "rights" activists who would just assoon die themselves before giving in to the notion that abortion is murder, they are the same ones who would raise a zillion bucks to find the "evil" killer who would throw a puppy into traffic.

So, basically they are saying that a human "fetus" is LESS than an animal.

These same darn tree huggers would fight for the right of a stinking amoeba, yet do all they can to permit the destruction of a human life!

It is WAY beyond me how they ration that.

[cmotherofpirl]

Post a picture of a baby whale holding a sign saying "save the babies"

[Guest TXRedRaider383]

i think that abortion is not ok and the kid should be put up for adaoption. i also think that adoption is your best bet when dealing with that or mabay you should keep your legs closed.

[Carrie]

Ok, I'm back from lunch.

I brought some of the pamphlets with me to show the girls. They all flipped through them. The Catholic girl flinched noticeably when she looked at some of the pictures. Maybe actually seeing the reality of what is done to those babies will sink in now that she has seen it. The girl who is a Jehova didn't react at all.

I asked them both how they could support abortion when both religions forbid abortion. The Catholic girl just shrugged and said she didn't agree with everything the Church teaches. The Jehova girl said "that's just my opinion." Neither of those answers were good in my opinion...just a vague way to try to get me off their backs.

The Wiccan girl is a different story entirely. She was very angry I brought the pamphlets, but her curiosity got the best of her and she did look at them anyway. She went on to tell me that her relationship with her boyfriend is "open", meaning they sleep around with different people. She told me that she doesn't want to get pregnant from anyone she sleeps with, but doesn't like contraception, so abortion is a good option for her.

Needless to say, my jaw was on the floor. Not only is she having sex outside of marriage, being unfaithful to the person she is with, but also using murder as an easy way to get out of a situation she should never subject herself too.

There were too many issues there to tackle at once, so I stuck with trying to make her see that the "fetus" was in fact a baby. I used Anna's idea and asked her about the kitten. She was appalled (she is an avid animal lover) at even having to hear the example. When I told her to think about that being done to a baby, she got very quiet.

I don't think it's really sunk in for her yet, but I can tell the example of the kitten REALLY bothered her. Another plus is that there were no personal attacks today. I think that's a step in the right direction. Although she was angry, she listened.

I gave her some of the pamphlets to keep and she took them. Whether or not she'll actually look at them is another story, but she's been given a chance too.

I'm going to keep it up for as long as I need to, even if l don't get invited to lunch as often )

Any ideas on what I could have done better or differently? I'm not very good at apologetics, so any advice is appreciated.

[Lil Red]

WOW!!!! GREAT JOB CARRIE!!!!!!

YOU ARE amesome!!!! WAY TO STICK UP FOR OUR UNBORN CHILDREN!!!!

I think you maybe give them a day or two to think about what you've said. You don't want to be on their backs about it all the time.....give it some time to sink in and for them to think about it. And KEEP PRAYING!!!!!

[Carrie]

Thanks Lil Red!

Pray I will! Pray, pray, pray!

[Jake Huether]

WOW!!!!  GREAT JOB CARRIE!!!!!!

YOU ARE amesome!!!! WAY TO STICK UP FOR OUR UNBORN CHILDREN!!!!

I think you maybe give them a day or two to think about what you've said.  You don't want to be on their backs about it all the time.....give it some time to sink in and for them to think about it.  And KEEP PRAYING!!!!!

ditto.

Great Job!

God will bless you and them for this.

[Brother Adam]

carrie rocks :)