Extra Eclesia Nulla....

[the_rev]

I thought you couldn't be on phatmass anymore.

Yours in Christ,

Eddie Lee

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i couldn't but i came back anyway.

so how where things without me?

[the_rev]

r u disobeying your parents?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i guess you could say that

[the_rev]

Go to confession

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

i refuse to go to Novus Ordo Confession
(and thats all their is here)

Edited August 19, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[the_rev]

how is novus ordo confession different than latin rite confession of 1956?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 18 2005, 08:52 PM']i refuse to go to Novus Ordo Confession
(and thats all their is here)
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[/quote]

So it's better to remain in a state of sin than have your sins absolved by a priest because you disagree with the liturgy he follows??

Sounds like you've got A LOT to confess, pal!

Edited August 19, 2005 by Socrates

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

the absolution is different. but the confession is still valid (if the correct form is followed)

its just that i have a problem with the modernistic priest sitting behind the screen.

[the_rev]

U aren't in schism are you?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 18 2005, 09:00 PM']the absolution is different. but the confession is still  valid (if the correct form is followed)

its just that i have a problem with the modernistic priest sitting behind the screen.
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Not all priests who accept Vatican II are modernistic. In fact, most arent. My pastor is very traditional, yet is completely orthodox. He is the perfect example of how a Priest should be.

[philothea]

That's what I was wondering. I didn't think confession changed...?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

no im not in schism.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 18 2005, 09:00 PM']the absolution is different. but the confession is still  valid (if the correct form is followed)

its just that i have a problem with the modernistic priest sitting behind the screen.
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The absolution the "Novus Ordo" priests give is "I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit"
And you yourself admitted the sacrament is valid.

And it is heresy to say that the personal holiness of the priest affects the validity or effectiveness of the sacrament. If that was the case, we could all be in trouble! Every priest is a sinner.

You should start out by confessing your sin of pride (which is the root of all sin).

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

stop twisting my words. i never said it would affect the validity of the sacrement. I think that sacrement is valid. the post-Conciliar Church consistently downgrades the reality and gravity of mortal sin, the benefits of confessing venial sins, the graces to be obtained from frequent confession, and the necessity of doing penance.

[ReinnieR]

does it matter?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 18 2005, 09:12 PM']stop twisting my words. i never said it would affect the validity of the sacrement. I think that sacrement is valid. the  post-Conciliar Church consistently downgrades the reality and gravity of mortal sin, the benefits of confessing venial sins, the graces to be obtained from frequent confession, and the necessity of doing penance.
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Since it does not affect the validity of the sacrament, then you have no excuse for not going. The problem lies in your attitude - ("I refuse to receive the Sacrament of Penance unless the priest is up to my standards")

This "post-Conciliar Church" tripe is a lot of meaningless drivel. The Church is the same One Holy Catholic Church that was founded by Christ. The teachings on mortal sin have not changed (nor the need fopr the Sacrament of Penance). You're blaming abuses or falsehoods of individuals on the Church Herself, and using this as an excuse to pridefully avoid the sacraments.

I know I sound harsh here, but it's past time someone slapped some sense into you. From your posts it is clear you are wallowing in self-righteous pride.

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 18 2005, 09:12 PM']stop twisting my words. i never said it would affect the validity of the sacrement. I think that sacrement is valid. the  post-Conciliar Church consistently downgrades the reality and gravity of mortal sin, the benefits of confessing venial sins, the graces to be obtained from frequent confession, and the necessity of doing penance.
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Ive experienced just the opposite. Ive read and heard from the Church many times the gravity of mortal sin, about penance, etc.

If you purposely look for priests who are modernistic, then of course this would be the conclusion you come to.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]I know I sound harsh here, but it's past time someone slapped some sense into you. From your posts it is clear you are wallowing in self-righteous pride.

[/quote]


this is true im very proud. But that is not why i don't go to confession.
it is not easy to have the assurance of a valid absolution, given the fact that the post-Conciliar Church consistently downgrades the reality and gravity of mortal sin, the benefits of confessing venial sins, the graces to be obtained from frequent confession, and the necessity of doing penance.


Post-Conciliar priest may or may not trivialize of their sins.

im not going to take that risk and than have to doubt wether or not im in a stae of grace.

[brendan1104]

Comparisons of Confession:

The traditional form has private confession, and extraordinary general absolution in emergencies.

Overview: Sign of the Cross, Bless me Father etc. Confession of sins.
Priest's advice, act of contrition, absolution.

Pre-Actual Absolution Prayers.

May God almighty have mercy on you, and forgive you your sins, and bring you to life everlasting. Amen.

May the almighty and merciful Lord grant you pardon, absolution, and remission of all your sins. Amen.

Actual traditional formula of absolution.

MAY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ABSOLVE THEE AND I BY HIS AUTHORITY ABSOLVE THEE FROM EVERY BOND OF EXCOMMUNICATION SUSPENSION AND INTERDICT AS FAR AS I AM ABLE AND THOU HAST NEED. MOREOVER I ABSOLVE THEE IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY GHOST.

It should be understood, all that's neccessary is "I absolve you, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost/Spirit."

The new rite, which has private confession, the communal form, and extraordinary general absolution, from: [url="http://www.carr.org/~meripper/faith/reconcil.htm:"]http://www.carr.org/~meripper/faith/reconcil.htm:[/url]

"After being welcomed by the priest, the penitent makes the sign of the cross saying: "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

The priest may read a short Scripture passage, then the penitent states the time since the last confession and confesses the sins recalled during the examination of conscience, including all mortal sins.

After the sins are confessed, the priest counsels the penitent and asks the penitent to do a penance, usually some prayers or a charitable work. The penitent accepts the penance.

The penitent expresses sorrow for sin in his or her own words, or by saying an Act of Contrition, or by saying short psalm of sorrow.

The priest then gives absolution saying:

"God the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of his Son has reconciled the world to himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

The penitent replies, "Amen."
The priest then says, "Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good."
The penitent replies, "His mercy endures forever."
The penitent is then dismissed by the priest in the peace of Christ."

It's been my experience to witness illicit and invalid general absolutions given at communal services, without private confession.

I've seen several weird things at these: when they are not celebrated as they should be.

And I've also had priests say: I forgive you, rather than absolve you.