Pope to meet traditionalist leader

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima
[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 23 2005, 03:44 PM']Pope Benedict XVI plans on changing the Vatican's Liturgy back  to the old Latin Liturgy anyhow.
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Here's what he had to say on the subject...
[quote]Q: Should Masses be said in Latin again?

A: That is no longer going to be possible as a general practice, and perhaps it is not desirable as such.  At least it is clear, I would say, that the Liturgy of the Word should be in people's mother tongue.  But otherwise I would be in favor of a new openness toward the use of Latin.
-"God and the World", p.417; Ignatius Press, 2000.[/quote]

[curtins]

yeah but isnt what makes the church so great is it's diversity?

and who wants to be reading a book the whole time to find out whats going on?

and that doesnt help with homilies

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

me too. Catholics are all about Latin

Protestants are all about the venacular.

its called a sermon and its in english.

i don't go to church for diversity i go for unity.

Edited August 23, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus

[MC Just]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:17 PM']JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima

Here's what he had to say on the subject...
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hmmm. That was 2000. He's Pope now and obviously doesnt feel the same as he did then. Why else would he be wanting to change the Vatican's Liturgy back?

[curtins]

yeah but its a united diversity if you get what i mean

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

just scrap the fallibile teaching go back to the mass of the saints the mass of all time.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima
[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:20 PM']hmmm. That was 2000. He's Pope now and obviously doesnt feel the same as he did then. Why else would he be wanting to change the Vatican's Liturgy back?
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He does give an exception for large tourist centers and the like, but it seems he's talking about St. Ipsy-Dipsy in Middle-of-Nowhere, Nebraska when he says that, though a new openness is required, it's perhaps not advisable to return to a completely Latin Liturgy.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima
[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:23 PM']just scrap the fallibile teaching go back to the mass of the saints the mass of all time.
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Which "Mass of all time" are you discussing? The Mozarabic Liturgy? Or perhaps the Ambrosian? Or the Carmelite? Or the Dominican? Or one of the Uniate Liturgies? Or the Tridentine Liturgy? The old Gallic Liturgy? Or the old Roman Liturgy? Which one?

[MC Just]

i'm trying to find the article, i actually heard it on EWTN news, about Benedict XVI wanting to make changes to the Liturgy because he favors Latin.

[Era Might]

[quote]And so, I think we have to restore not so much certain ceremonies, but the essential idea of liturgy – to understand in liturgy, we are not representing ourselves, but we receive the grace of the presence of the Lord with the Church of the heaven and of the earth.  And the universality of the liturgy, it seems to me, is essential.  Definition of liturgy and restoring this idea would also help to be more obedient to the norms, not as a juridical positivism, but really as sharing, participating what is given to us from the Lord in the Church.

--Pope Benedict XVI interview with EWTN

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/RATZINTV.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/RATZINTV.HTM[/url][/quote]

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
8/23 - St. Rose of Lima
[quote name='MC Just' date='Aug 23 2005, 04:28 PM']i'm trying to find the article, i actually heard it on EWTN news, about Benedict XVI wanting to make changes to the Liturgy because he favors Latin.
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I know that he's doing that to the Liturgies at the Vatican, but as far as I'm aware there's been no universal decision made on his part as yet.

[zabbazooey]

I can be more reverent if I don';t have to look at a piece of paper to know what's going on!

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

[quote][b]Pope Pius XII[/b], [i]Mediator Dei[/i]:
59. [b]The Church is without question a living organism, and as an organism, in respect of the sacred liturgy also, she grows, matures, develops, adapts and accommodates herself to temporal needs and circumstances, provided only that the integrity of her doctrine be safeguarded[/b]...

60. The use of the Latin language, customary in a considerable portion of the Church, is a manifest and beautiful sign of unity, as well as an effective antidote for any corruption of doctrinal truth. In spite of this, [b]the use of the mother tongue in connection with several of the rites may be of much advantage to the people[/b]. But the Apostolic See alone is empowered to grant this permission. It is forbidden, therefore, to take any action whatever of this nature without having requested and obtained such consent, since [b]the sacred liturgy, as We have said, is entirely subject to the discretion and approval of the Holy See[/b].

61. The same reasoning holds in the case of some persons who are bent on the restoration of all the ancient rites and ceremonies indiscriminately. The liturgy of the early ages is most certainly worthy of all veneration. [b]But ancient usage must not be esteemed more suitable and proper, either in its own right or in its significance for later times and new situations, on the simple ground that it carries the savor and aroma of antiquity. The more recent liturgical rites likewise deserve reverence and respect. They, too, owe their inspiration to the Holy Spirit, who assists the Church in every age even to the consummation of the world.[52] They are equally the resources used by the majestic Spouse of Jesus Christ to promote and procure the sanctity of man[/b].

52. Cf. Matt. 28:20.
[url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii...tor-dei_en.html[/url][/quote]

Edited August 24, 2005 by thedude

[annie]

Dude-- excellent citation.

The word 'spouse' makes me think.

Hubby married me almost 20 yrs ago.

I was the same person I am today, but less flab and wrinkles.

Should he desire me as I was THEN, or as I am now?

Our Church is a living, breathing spouse of Christ. Same as it was 2000 yrs ago, only with some flab and extra wrinkles (look at history for these- I am not trying to be sacreligious). The changes may be external, and as long as they are in line with the TRUTH of who the Bride is, then they are acceptable.

We should never idealize the past, 'the good old days'.

BUT-- I do agree there are abuses, and they should be stopped.

Classic line from my then 8yr old daughter at our pared-down parish outside Louisville, KY:

The church was a white-coated meeting hall, no icons, no stained glass, sliding doors for windows, carpet and bare essentials. The Tabernacle was no where to be found, lo and behold there in the BACK corner (drywalled off in the shape of a triangle) was a door leading to the little Tabernacle-- Lizzie said, " Why did they put Jesus in the broom closet?"