FSSP

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

THe FSSP now makes their priests and semenarianes learn and celebrate the Novus Ordo. I think that is not fair because the reason many of the those priest joined the FSSP was to say the old mass.

and thoughts?

[Myles Domini]

Much good could come of this...With their intimate understanding of what liturgy should be the priests of the Fraternity could become a major force for the 'reform of the reform'. As beautiful as the Mass of the 1962 is it highly unlikely to ever become the Missa Normativa of the Latin Church. It is thus neccessary to look again at the 1969 reform and attempt to beautify it, restore the sense of the sacred to it and elimate all abuses wrought upon it.

Tell me do they say the Pauline Mass facing eschatological east?

[MilesChristi]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 25 2005, 05:49 PM']THe FSSP now makes their priests and semenarianes learn and celebrate the Novus Ordo.
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This is news to me. I am aware that they are encouraged to concelebrate the Chrism Mass on Holy Thursday with the priests and bishops of the diocese in which they reside, but I didn't know about anything more than that.

Where did you hear about this, Sam?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

various trad sites.
i think Novus Ordo reforms can come of themselves with the suppourt of the Papacy. i think that the Tridentine mass still needs to be celebrated and if it isn't i could tell you i would leave the church. Novus ordo reform is important but so is the Tridentine mass.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Well, it makes sense since FSSP people ought to recognize the validity of the novus ordo and since they might be in a situation at some point in their priestly ministry where it would be appropriate for them to celebrate this rite.
But it would certainly be absurd if they started celebrating the novus ordo most of the time, or even regularly, since their charism and spirituality is tied to the old rite.

God bless.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

EENS,
You learn a lot of stuff in school you'll never use, don't you?

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]EENS,
You learn a lot of stuff in school you'll never use, don't you?[/quote]

I guess.

i think that the FSSP is using the NO more and more with the shortage of priests continuing.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 25 2005, 07:04 PM']I guess.

i think that the FSSP is using the NO more and more with the shortage of priests continuing.
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It makes sense.. I mean if a FSSP priest was picking up the slack in a diocese in need of priests it seems like they might need to offer the NO Mass too because Latin Mass devotees are a minority.
And I think this is good because they could celebrate the NO properly and in a most reverent way so maybe it would help heal the culture and show the beauty and dignity of the Mass to people who would never go to a Latin Mass and have only known Masses with liturgical abuse and stuff.

God bless.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

chanches are if the celebrated the NO they would have to do it facing the congregation in english......

[Dave]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 25 2005, 06:32 PM']i think that the Tridentine mass still needs to be celebrated and if it isn't i could tell you i would leave the church. Novus ordo reform is important but so is the Tridentine mass.
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So your personal preferences for what you want the Mass to be are more important to you than the full truth that can only be found in the Catholic Church?

Edited August 26, 2005 by Dave

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Dave' date='Aug 25 2005, 09:03 PM']So your personal preferences for what you want the Mass to be are more important to you than the full truth that can only be found in the Catholic Church?
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There is often more to it than that. The integrity of the Mass is connected with a correct understanding of the nature of the Mass and fidelity to the Church's Theology of the Liturgy. It is about the relationship between ordthopraxis and orthodoxy. If this Mass is compromised the faith follows. In serious cases it is not simply a matter of personal preference.
The should be obvious in extreme cases such as clown Masses in which the Liturgy is completely profaned and its true character is not only completely obscured, but mocked.

[Dave]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Aug 25 2005, 10:12 PM']There is often more to it than that. The integrity of the Mass is connected with a correct understanding of the nature of the Mass and fidelity to the Church's Theology of the Liturgy. It is about the relationship between ordthopraxis and orthodoxy. If this Mass is compromised the faith follows. In serious cases it is not simply a matter of personal preference.
The should be obvious in extreme cases such as clown Masses in which the Liturgy is completely profaned and its true character is not only completely obscured, but mocked.
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I don't deny that true abuses happen and that more should be done to correct them. But for someone to leave the Church because they feel the Mass has been compromised is extreme. Individual priests, laity, etc. can compromise individual Masses. But to say that the Church itself compromises its own Masses is improper and un-Catholic. It seems to me that such people have forgotten Christ's promise that the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 25 2005, 05:49 PM']THe FSSP now makes their priests and semenarianes learn and celebrate the Novus Ordo. I think that is not fair because the reason many of the those priest joined the FSSP was to say the old mass.

and thoughts?
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This is not true. The story you are referring to (if it the same one I am thinking about) turned out to be misunderstood or misreported. To my knowledge they (and the other trad. orders) are not required to say the N.O. (nor should they ever be), but are allowed to if the bishop of the diocese asks them to concelebrate the Chrism Mass. They are certainly not taught the N.O. in the seminary. If they are it is quite new and quite contrary to the wishes of the vast majority of seminarians as well as contrary to the agreement between the founders of the fraternity and the Vatican. All in all, it would be a bad idea.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

that is not what i am reffering too and i am well a where that that priest left the FSSP.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Aug 25 2005, 08:48 PM']chanches are if the celebrated the NO they would have to do it facing the congregation in english......
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Actually, no. : I don't believe that that can really be controlled...

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Dave' date='Aug 25 2005, 09:31 PM']I don't deny that true abuses happen and that more should be done to correct them.  But for someone to leave the Church because they feel the Mass has been compromised is extreme.  Individual priests, laity, etc. can compromise individual Masses.  But to say that the Church itself compromises its own Masses is improper and un-Catholic.  It seems to me that such people have forgotten Christ's promise that the gates of hell will never prevail against the Church
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As a Priest dear to me said, our souls must be fed.

Before you think anything weird of him, he is a bi-Ritual Priest of the Latin and Byzantine Rites, who says he would go back to the Tridentine in a heartbeat, and a convert from the Greek Orthodox.

That said, he told me the first way our soul can be fed, and the most important as well, is by truth.

A great teacher of truth the Liturgy is. It is another way that our soul can be fed. Schisms arise often because there is something not loved in the Church today that should be, and this includes the Tridentine Rite.

I can go further into what he has said, if you would like.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]chanches are if the celebrated the NO they would have to do it facing the congregation in english...... [/quote]

Why? Fr Joseph Fessio of Ignatius press says the Holy Mass facing eschatological east and I think most trad's would consider him a neo-modernist. At least, given he's one of Joseph Ratzinger's graduate students and Benedict XVI has been labelled as such I'd assume Fr Fessio would also be classified under this title?

[popestpiusx]

Most trads? A rather irresponsible statement don't you think?

[Myles Domini]

Pending on what I meant by trad and who I classify as such. If you care to define trad (which to many people means many sometimes rather different things) I may re-evaluate my statement.

[popestpiusx]

It was your statement. My definition of 'trad' is irrelevant.