Anglicans

[CatholicAndFanatical]

ok, im on a debate right now and for some reason I have drawn a blank on things..long day..

Would the Anglican Church be considered in Union with Rome?

Thanks

[PedroX]

No, and they haven't been for about 450 years. For a while, they had valid Holy Orders, but not anymore.

peace...

[CatholicAndFanatical]

excellent bro, thanks for the speedy response :P

[Ellenita]

Blooming Henry and his daughter Elizabeth! :angry:

[nippy316]

There's an Anglican church near my house, and on the sign it says in BIG, BOLD type: "Tradtional, Episcopal & Catholic"

So thanks because I was wondering about that.

[Uncle Gus]

The word "catholic" simply means "universal," so they can use that word to describe themselves if they want.

[Ellenita]

Though of course in the church Nippy316 is referring to, it possibly means it's a high anglican church since it also has the word traditional on the sign - the members of that particular church might therefore describe themselves as 'anglo catholics'.

[Katholikos]

The word "catholic" simply means "universal," so they can use that word to describe themselves if they want.

They use the word "Catholic" to mean that they are one of the three "branches" of the One True Church, which are, according to them, Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican.

The Orthodox are only one step away from being part of the One True Church from which they originated. They were once Catholic, and have retained their valid episcopacy; therefore, they have validly ordained priests who administer the same seven sacraments as the Catholic Church. The Orthodox are in schism, but the Anglicans are in heresy.

The Anglican church is Catholic in ritual only -- they do a copycat Mass. But theologically, they are Protestant through and through -- mildly Calvinistic.

Henry VIII declared himself head of the Church of England, replacing the Pope, and confiscated or destroyed Church property -- lands and buildings. But the doctrines of the English Church remained Catholic. The real culprit in making England thoroughly Protestant was Edward VI, son of Henry VIII and wife number 3, Jane Seymour.

There are three twigs on the Anglican tree -- High Church (pseudo-Catholic), Low Church (anti-ritual, they'd fit right in w/Unitarians), and Broad Church (more like Methodists and Congregationalists).

JMJ Likos

Edited November 29, 2003 by Katholikos

[notbilln]

I asked my parhis priest about the holy orders thing. Appernetly they recieve a bible when they are ordained, instead of the the collar. So they are sacraficed to the bible rather than christ. or something along that line.

[Ellenita]

The real culprit in making England thoroughly protestant was Edward VI

Though of course the behaviour of subsequent kings and queens also played a part, including Elizabeth I.

Then there was the small matter of the civil war and Cromwell!

Charles II who ruled as protestant king following Cromwell's death, was forced by parliament to sign acts which resulted in many of his catholic advisers being imprisoned or losing their lives for their faith, though he had tried to bring about some religious tolerance in the country before that - he was married to a catholic. He later reverted to his catholic faith on his death bed and was succeeded by his brother James II, a catholic king, who was eventuallly disposed by parliament. A law was then passed which forbids any king or queen who is catholic being able to rule, and it still stands today. In fact, not so many years ago, one of the Duchess' (I'm not sure which one!) converted to catholicism, and although her husband is not close in the line of succession, they still had to formally give 'up the right' to the throne as a result.

Charles, who will be 'head of the anglican church' when he succeeds to the throne, is reportedly very interested in islam and wishes to be known as 'defender of the faiths' rather than 'defender of the faith' at his coronation. I'm not sure that the constitution prevents him from doing this, though it does prevent him from becoming catholic or marrying one!

[PedroX]

Ellenita,

I believe it was Princess Margret, Queen Elizabeth II's sister. It happened in 94 or 95 and there was no great danger of her taking the throne, so she was "allowed" to convert.

Wow, I do spend to much time reading about British royalty...

peace...

[Dave]

Ellenita,

I believe it was Princess Margret, Queen Elizabeth II's sister.  It happened in 94 or 95 and there was no great danger of her taking the throne, so she was "allowed" to convert.

Wow, I do spend to much time reading about British royalty...

peace...

Princess Margaret converted to Catholicism?

[PedroX]

Yeah, I think so. It was one of Elizabeth's sisters.

peace...

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

There is the Anglican Use Liturgy which is sort of like a sub-Rite to the Roman Catholic Church. It consists of Anglican parishes that have converted to Catholicism and coem into union with Rome. Their priests are re-ordained in the Catholic Church and they are allowed to celebrate a Mass similar to the Anglican Mass. The married priests that you see in the Roman Rite are most likely former Anglican priests. If their wife dies, they are not permitted to re-marry.

[Ellenita]

PedroX, I don't think it was Margaret. She had an anglican funeral and I'm sure they would have honoured her faith and given her a Catholic funeral if she had converted. It is a Duchess, still living, who married a cousin to the Queen - it may be the Duchess of Kent.

[God Conquers]

I hadn't heard that Charles II converted on his deathbed, intersting. As for parliament's intervention in the DIvine Right of Kings as per the "Glorious" revolution of 1688, we are all thoroughly indoctrinated:

Rock-a-by- baby on the treetop.

(JamesII's newly born Catholic son, the pinnacle and future of the Stuart dynasty)

When the wind blows, the cradle will Rock

(the "protestant wind" carries William of Orange miraculously down the English Channel, James II prepares to defend His throne [this would have resulted in a second Civil War... bad for EVERYONE])

When the Bow breaks the Cradle will fall, and down will come Baby, cradle and all.

(JamesII flees England to remain in exile in France with his son and the rest of the shattered Stuart Dynasty)

[CatholicAndFanatical]

does anybody else think thats a wierd song to sing to a baby? Talking about his cradle falling and the baby coming down..geesh, that would give any baby a nightmare.

:o

[God Conquers]

I agree, it is crazy, but all nursery Rhymes are.

Ring around the Rosie is about the Plague.

[Ellenita]

I hadn't heard that Charles II converted on his death bed, interesting

I don't think he was at all committed to protestantism on a personal level, it was purely politics since he had seen his father lose the crown, and his head, and he was determined that the same would not happen to himself! His mother, who was a catholic refused to see him for most of his life because he claimed to be protestant. James, his brother, refused to renounce his catholicism and insisted that he marry a catholic after his first wife died, despite Charles urging him to 'be protestant' for the sake of the crown, if not in personal conviction. Charles continued to insist that James was his heir even when James refused to renounce his faith. Many of his most trusted advisers were catholic, as was his wife, so perhaps his conversion on his death bed is not unreasonable to understand really.

[God Conquers]

Well, actually, James II was a convert to Catholicism. But I don't really question that Charles had close links to Catholics. He actually had secret treaties with Louis XIV. (You know more than me how well that revelation would have gone over witht the English public). I just hadn't heard about the conversion.