Michael Brown Tells of the Devestation

[thessalonian]

Michael Brown, A catholic writer who specializes in the supernatural aspects of the faith wrote an article in 2001 concerning the perils that New Orleans was in store for. He hits the nail righto n the head.

[url="http://www.spiritdaily.org/New-world-order/neworleans.htm"]http://www.spiritdaily.org/New-world-order/neworleans.htm[/url]

He spoke of a purification that was neccessary for NO unless the city repented. This labor day weekend there was to be a gay mardi gra's from what I understand. Interestingly enough Katrina means pure.


[url="http://webmail.usfamily.net/web/mail/message.php?index=2&msguid=m.20050903205452897504"]http://webmail.usfamily.net/web/mail/messa...903205452897504[/url]

However, beyond these speculations is a more general acknowledgement that New Orleans, the epicentre of the disaster, was a "sin city" which harboured few rivals. The New Orleans "southern decadence" festival which was to take place Labour Day weekend, is described by a French Quarter tourism site as "sort of like a gayer version of Mardi Gras" which is "most famous (or infamous) for the displays of naked flesh which characterize the event," with "public displays of sexuality . . . pretty much everywhere you look."

The city is also renowned for occult practices, particularly voodoo. Voodoo is also common in violence and crime saturated Haiti.

The American Spectator reports that "New Orleans has one of the highest murder rates in the country. By mid-August of this year, 192 murders had been committed in New Orleans, 'nearly 10 times the national average,' ..

Edited September 4, 2005 by thessalonian

[Era Might]

I can't agree with this.

Remember those who asked Jesus why the man was born blind: because of his sin or that of his parents? Jesus said neither.

Let's focus on helping our brothers in need, and living the corporal works of mercy, rather than ruminating on things we can know nothing about.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Era Might

[morostheos]

wow

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 3 2005, 10:49 PM']I can't agree with this.

Remember those who asked Jesus why the man was born blind: because of his sin or that of his parents? Jesus said neither.

Let's focus on helping our brothers in need, and living the corporal works of mercy, rather than ruminating on things we can know nothing about.
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That verse is of value in this discussion but we should not forget Hebrews as well. God does punish sin.

3: Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.
4: In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5: And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? -- "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
[b]6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."[/b]
7: It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8: If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

I think the danger in looking at this from a purely sin aspect is that we might in pride feel they are worse sinners than us. They are not and we are in peril as well if we do not use this as a call to repent.

Blessings

[Era Might]

[quote]I think the danger in looking at this from a purely sin aspect is that we might in pride feel they are worse sinners than us. They are not and we are in peril as well if we do not use this as a call to repent.[/quote]

Exactly. Imagine if a family member of yours were involved in, say, a car crash, and someone came on the news and said it was a divine judgement.

There is no way for us to know why God allowed this tragedy to happen. The question needs to be left to the mystery of providence, so that we can comfort the afflicted, and use this time of tragedy as a time of true personal conversion.

The disciples asked the same things about the 18 Jews who had been crushed in Jerusalem. The Lord said, "Do you think these men were greater sinners than everyone else? Unless you repent, you shall all likewise perish."

Edited September 4, 2005 by Era Might

[missionseeker]

"It's that kind of stuff -- not God -- that brings disaster"
That doesn't even sound Christian as if what happens is decided by human choices and not Divine Will What his explanation for the bottm half of Mississippi being torn up -Biloxi? Well then God sure did give New Orleans a way longer time to repent
How about December's giant tsumnami?


"God can intervene"
Intervene? For us to whom?

"the most catastrophic hurricane in the history of the United States."
THAT was right on the nail

And what about the story where Abraham(I think ) is asking God to save the city and God says Yes if I can find 5 good people it will be saved?

Edited September 4, 2005 by missionseeker

[Socrates]

While New Orleans definitely has its problems, I know for a fact there are also very good people living there, including probably more good Catholics than most other major cities.

What the mind of God is and whether this was a punishment for the wickedness in that city is not mine to say.

And most major American cities certainly have their share of wickedness. What about San Francisco? L.A.? New York? Should anyone feel exempt from God's wrath?

We should all repent and pray, rather than be judgemental of the inhabitants of a particular city.

[musturde]

What would stop God from killing all of Korea or Iran if your logic makes any sense. Be careful with what you say, people need a reason for why things happen so they often associate it with the supernatural. This was no miracle, it was nature.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='musturde' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:45 PM']What would stop God from killing all of Korea or Iran if your logic makes any sense. Be careful with what you say, people need a reason for why things happen so they often associate it with the supernatural. This was no miracle, it was nature.
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Nothing. What's your point. He has made Iraq a place of misery. And those in Koreah are not having parities contrary to your words. There is much suffering in that country.

See post 4 of this thread. I can cite many more verses about God's punishing of sin. Do you call God a liar? And yes those people do suffer for their sins.

Edited September 4, 2005 by thessalonian

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:26 PM']While New Orleans definitely has its problems, I know for a fact there are also very good people living there, including probably more good Catholics than most other major cities.

What the mind of God is and whether this was a punishment for the wickedness in that city is not mine to say.

And most major American cities certainly have their share of wickedness.  What about San Francisco?  L.A.?  New York?  Should anyone feel exempt from God's wrath?

We should all repent and pray, rather than be judgemental of the inhabitants of a particular city.
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My purpose is not to be judgemental in posting this if you will read my 2nd post on this thread. I am 100% in agreement with you. Mr. Brown also in his article acknowledge the many faithful Catholics. There suffering will go in the treasury of merrit or be used to stave off the fires of hell and purgatory time for sinners, if they themselves are in fact innocent. I completely agree with your sentiments that we should not take pride in ourselves and should be on the lookout for when the next disaster will stike at the ever increasing decadence in these other places you mention. First and formost we must repent of our own sins. We then must pray for those who do not obey, do not adore, do not trust the God above.

[musturde]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 3 2005, 11:52 PM']What's your point? Do you call God a liar?  And yes those people do suffer for their sins.
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I believe God would kill off all the islamic extremists first if he was to kill someone. I don't call God a liar but God doesn't punish a whole group for what a part of a group is doing wrong. God would not send a hurricane down to destroy Louisiana in his wrath. If God was really angry, he would have destroyed California. Russia should be in shreds right now. Why's Florida so beat up? We're all sinners and God is merciful, he's not going to smite us because we can do that perfectly ourselves when we do something bad. Louisiana was in a bad place at a bad time. Padre Pio suffered from his own Church as a test from God, not as a punishment. If anything of divine nature, this is a test.


[quote]He has made Iraq a place of misery. [/quote]
Also, by saying God made Iraq a place of misery, are you saying that God approved the war or that God backs Bush on everything he does? I'm just wondering.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='musturde' date='Sep 4 2005, 01:35 AM']I believe God would kill off all the islamic extremists first if he was to kill someone. I don't call God a liar but God doesn't punish a whole group for what a part of a group is doing wrong. God would not send a  hurricane down to destroy Louisiana in his wrath. If God was really angry, he would have destroyed California. Russia should be in shreds right now.  Why's Florida so beat up? We're all sinners and God is merciful, he's not going to smite us because we can do that perfectly ourselves when we do something bad. Louisiana was in a bad place at a bad time. Padre Pio suffered from his own Church as a test from God, not as a punishment. If anything of divine nature, this is a test.
Also, by saying God made Iraq a place of misery, are you saying that God approved the war or that God backs Bush on everything he does? I'm just wondering.
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Your fooling yourself kiddo. God's running the show. You make it sound like there was nothing he could do about the NO deal. You don't understand God's mercy. You need to read all of Hebrews. God would not be merciful if he did not punish our sins. It says "HE CHASTISES THOSE HE LOVES". Therefore to some degree it may well be that he punishes Christians first. He loves all men in a sense of coure. But Heb 12 clearly indicates that those who are his adopted sons and daughters he chastises. Your doing alot of handwaving about what God would and would not do. Yet you don't give me one scripture. Read the bible. Mercy is bringing men out of their sins by trial and tribulation.

Your last paragraph shows that you need to read some theology. While God is not the "cause" of evil he allows it. I am not saying that what Bush did was evil. God is his judge. But there was much evil that surrounded the events of the war and brought it about. It all works to God's ultimate purpose. He's running the show.

Hebr 12
4: In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5: And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? -- "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
7: It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8: If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
9: Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
10: For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
11: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
12: Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,
13: and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
14: Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
15: See to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" spring up and cause trouble, and by it the many become defiled;
16: that no one be immoral or irreligious like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.
17: For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

No more handwaving. Give me scripture or submit to it. God does not lie.

God bless

[thessalonian]

By the way, I was thinking about your comment that God would chastise California etc. first if that is what he was doing. He is chastising the WHOLE COUNTRY. Let me tell you 9-11 was a chastisement for me. I went 17 months unemployed with 8 kids to feed since then. The economy has suffered greatly and people suffer with it. This is God's correction and if we see it any other way we are missing the boat. We are all sinners in need of correction, that he may root the weeds of sin our of our hearts that we may bear fruit.

You have not seen the full impact of Katrina and it's purification yet. The gas prices are already hitting me. And there will be other impacts. If we do not see God's hand in this we are going to miss the board.

Luke 13 is important in all of this.

2: And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered thus?
3: I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
4: Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Silo'am fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who dwelt in Jerusalem?
5: I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
6: And he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7: And he said to the vinedresser, `Lo, these three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down; why should it use up the ground?'
8: And he answered him, `Let it alone, sir, this year also, till I dig about it and put on manure.
9: And if it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"
10: Now he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.

Those who die and those who suffer the direct impact are not what this is all about. It was mearly the one's who died time for judgement. We are no better than them and the message God sends is for us. Wake up from your slumber! I say we because I see my sins also. The Lord puts them before me and my reflections on these events needs to change my heart as well.

Edited September 4, 2005 by thessalonian

[musturde]

[color=purple]Hebr 12
4: In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5: And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? -- "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
7: It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
8: If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
9: Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
10: For they disciplined us for a short time at their pleasure, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
11: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
12: Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees,
13: and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed.
14: Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
15: See to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God; that no "root of bitterness" spring up and cause trouble, and by it the many become defiled;
16: that no one be immoral or irreligious like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal.
17: For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.
[/color]
1. Where does it say God would punish a whole nation by a horrific natural attack?

2. What you showed my by itself is obviously applying chastizement, not the killing of thousands of people.

[color=green]
Matt: 11-24
20Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.[d] If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."[/color]

Judgement day seems to imply when people die, and Jesus was Big on punishing after death not during a lifetime.


[color=red]1 As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth.

2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

3Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him.[/color]

I know God CAN intervene in an extraordinary way in some events but God usually does not in my opinion. He'll usually use a person, not a natural occurance. China is still here and so is Russia. God does not favor the United States over others. In fact, God would first chastize Rome (excluding Vatican City) for all the evil over there. I mean, they are right next to Peter's tomb and the country is far more worldy than we are in the States. Why would he Chastise us first. We are founded on Christianity but we are far from Christian now. I asked you about Russia, there was no responce. God has revealed to the Church that Russia is not in his favor. Has he divinely revelaed that Louisiana is not in his favor? There would be no point in God chastizing an area by destroying it if the area didn't even know why they were being punished. God does not side in wars, look at the Crusades.

[thessalonian]

1. Where does it say God would punish a whole nation by a horrific natural attack?

You have not read the book of revelations have you. Israel was judged as a nation as well AFTER Christ. Have you not heard the destruction of the temple and how the Roman army put 1.2 million Jew's to siege and they all died. The Christians of the time suffered as well. They had to go live in caves and hide. They were persecuted intensly by the Romans, to marytdom.

2. What you showed my by itself is obviously applying chastizement, not the killing of thousands of people.

I don't understand this comment.

[musturde]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Sep 4 2005, 10:02 AM']
You have not read the book of revelations have you.  Israel was judged as a nation as well AFTER Christ.  Have you not heard the destruction of the temple and how the Roman army put 1.2 million Jew's to siege and they all died.  The Christians of the time suffered as well.  They had to go live in caves and hide.  They were persecuted intensly by the Romans, to marytdom.

2. What you showed my by itself is obviously applying chastizement, not the killing of thousands of people.

I don't understand this comment.
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I was talking about the verses you showed me.

[musturde]

This theory is very offensive to the families of the good Christians who died in Hurricane Katrina. If you are to make such a theory(although i now see where your going with it) , do it after the time of mourning please.

[missionseeker]

Are you then saying that God used suicide bombers with fanatic Islamic ideaology (Kill the Infidels) to chastise New York or America?


2: And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered thus?
3: I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.


I think Jesus meant perish as in roast in Hell.


BTW God can intervene"
Intervene? For us to whom I was thinking of the wrong word I apologize.

[Era Might]

[quote]Are you then saying that God used suicide bombers with fanatic Islamic ideaology (Kill the Infidels) to chastise New York or America?
[/quote]

Answering this question in itself, apart from any question of whether or not such-and-such was a divine punishment, God can use the wicked to punish his people. See, for example, the book of Hosea, where God uses the Assyrians to punish the Israelites. Hosea complains that the Assyrians were quite evil themselves, and God said not to worry, their judgement would come in due time.

[toledo_jesus]

it's somehow satisfying to think that perhaps NO was destroyed due to God's wrath/displeasure. Who's really to say? I think we should focus on the good that's got to be done in the future, for those who survived.

but regardless, a lot of bad stuff has been happening...hasn't it? Muslims dying by the hundreds of thousands in Asia, American economy taking a hit, not to mention NO destroyed and the base elements of humanity given free reign...I think it may be entirely appropriate to believe that God is unhappy. A little of Yahweh might be what we need right now.