*Cough Cough*

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote]*******, if a Christian is truly a Christian -- a born again member of the family of God (John 1)-- then nothing can undo that (Romans 8). He or she may do wrong(1 John 1,2), but he or she will also be disciplined by God (Hebrews 12).

That being said, what about divorce? There are two times when it is Scripturally allowable:

1. For a lifestyle of adultery (a one-time mistake does not qualify) (see Proverbs 2, for example)

2. If the unbeliever leaves the marriage and initiates the divorce (1 Cor. 7).

Divorce was never intended by God, but then, never was sin! Both occur.

In both the cases above, the believer who is fully divorced is free to remarry.

What about severe spousal abuse? Separation is the better part of wisdom. Don't stick around for more bruises and blood!

If a believer chooses to divorce for reasons of spousal abuse, God knows the heart and I don't think it is up to us to judge. Real abuse is almost a type of slow murder and I don't think we have the obligation to play willing victim! However, although I know separation is biblical, divorce in this situation is a highly argumented subject.

But adultery? Ongoing affair(s) are biblical reason(s) for divorce.

And, again, if you are a Christian truly, then nothing you can do will change that -- you are under His ownership, and not your own.[/quote]


Talk about being full of bull.

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

It's amazing what they try to pass as "good doctrine" over at the BB.

[Sojourner]

I take it you're referring to the OSAS stuff?

None of this is all that surprising considering its source. In fact, I'd say this is pretty common teaching on both divorce and salvation for most Protestant denominations.

[zabbazooey]

REALLY?!

Oh wow, I didn't know it was that bad....

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:08 PM']I take it you're referring to the OSAS stuff?

None of this is all that surprising considering its source. In fact, I'd say this is pretty common teaching on both divorce and salvation for most Protestant denominations.
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I think the thread was called:

"Is the believer still saved if they get a divorce from their nonbeliver spouse" or something like that.


SIckening that I used to think like that

[homeschoolmom]

It's certainly better than divorce for "irreconsilable differences" or "no fault" for pete's sake...

[zabbazooey]

i never understood irreconciliable differences.......

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='zabbazooey' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:47 PM']i never understood irreconciliable differences.......
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bleh... that's just legalize for "we don't want to be married anymore."

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:49 PM']bleh... that's just legalize for "we don't want to be married anymore."
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Yep. "We just can't get along."

Or, "I'd rather be sleeping with that dude over there."

[Jaime]

<-------- looks over there

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 6 2005, 01:28 PM']It's certainly better than divorce for "irreconsilable differences" or "no fault" for pete's sake...
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How about, "because he leaves the toilet seat up" or "she burned my grilled coagulated milk"?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:26 PM']I think the thread was called:

"Is the believer still saved if they get a divorce from their nonbeliver spouse"  or something like that.
SIckening that I used to think like that 
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Well, honestly my thoughts today aren't all that different from this particular post, aside from the OSAS teachings. And, of course, I defer to the Church's teachings on when divorce is justified.

And I guess I'm really not sickened that I once believed that. It's not all that surprising that I did, considering that this is the way I grew up and what I was taught from childhood. I think there's even a grain of truth in that teaching, in that God does love us and continue to woo us back to himself even after we've sinned.

I'm just wondering why you're so sickened at what you used to believe ... you didn't intentionally believe something you knew to be wrong. You accepted what you thought to be true. Then, when you learned the real truth, you accepted that, through God's grace.

It's not a bad thing that you used to be Protestant. God used even that faulty teaching to bring you closer to himself, which again is a testament to his grace.

[zabbazooey]

it's funny but you know people probably got divorced over that

[Sojourner]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:57 PM']<-------- looks over there
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I wouldn't rather be sleeping with him. I'm just saying that's what some people who divorce think. I don't have any particular feelings about that guy over there, one way or the other.

[homeschoolmom]

How about "when I said 'for better or worse' I really only meant 'better.'"?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 6 2005, 01:03 PM']I wouldn't rather be sleeping with him. I'm just saying that's what some people who divorce think. I don't have any particular feelings about that guy over there, one way or the other.
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That guy over there told me he thought you were a cutie patooty.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 6 2005, 01:18 PM']That guy over there told me he thought you were a cutie patooty.
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Really?

Hmm, well, did he give you his number? He's not too bad himself ...

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 6 2005, 01:02 PM']Well, honestly my thoughts today aren't all that different from this particular post, aside from the OSAS teachings. And, of course, I defer to the Church's teachings on when divorce is justified.

And I guess I'm really not sickened that I once believed that. It's not all that surprising that I did, considering that this is the way I grew up and what I was taught from childhood. I think there's even a grain of truth in that teaching, in that God does love us and continue to woo us back to himself even after we've sinned.

I'm just wondering why you're so sickened at what you used to believe ... you didn't intentionally believe something you knew to be wrong. You accepted what you thought to be true. Then, when you learned the real truth, you accepted that, through God's grace.

It's not a bad thing that you used to be Protestant. God used even that faulty teaching to bring you closer to himself, which again is a testament to his grace.
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I'm mainly sickened by it because of how far from the Truth I was, and I was persuading others away from the truth.

*Bad Teresa*

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Mrs. Bro. Adam' date='Sep 6 2005, 01:27 PM']I'm mainly sickened by it because of how far from the Truth I was, and I was persuading others away from the truth.

*Bad Teresa*
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I know how you feel. I once encouraged a friend of mine not to date a guy partly because he was Catholic. They did date, and eventually married, but he became Baptist first. Whenever I think of that, it makes me really sad.

My study group is doing the book of Romans right now, and it's been really valuable to me to reflect on St. Paul's experience in this area. The man [i]persecuted[/i] Christians, and stood witness at the stoning of a great Christian saint, and yet still sees value in the faith of his fathers.

He says in Romans 3, "What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God." While there's a slightly different situation in the Protestant world, there definitely is truth there that, as a Catholic, you can acknowledge as a starting point to begin communications.

St. Paul talks in other places about how zealous he was in his faith. I'm sure that you felt that same zeal as a Protestant, and that can serve you well now that you're Catholic. When you did what you did, you were motivated by a love for God, and a desire to protect what you thought was truth. That's not a bad thing -- it's good, actually. Now that you know better who God is and how to love him, you can be an extraordinarily effective communicator of truth to people who are what you were.

[kateri05]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 6 2005, 12:02 PM'] And, of course, I defer to the Church's teachings on when divorce is justified.
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sorry, soj, not be picky, but just to clarify for those reading this:
divorce is never "justified" by Mother Church, namely because it is not a spiritual or physical possibility. once united in the sacrament of holy matrimony, the two have become one flesh and only death can part them.

however, separation (ie living apart) for good reasons (adultery, unbelieving spouse, abuse, etc. ) is a different issue. and in certain situations, such as lifelong adultery or abuse of any kind, an annulment would be possible if the Church could find cause, since of course, if the full consent and knowledge was not present at the wedding, then the sacrament could not have taken place and a union of bodies and spirits did not occurr. but annullment does not end a marriage, it simply clarifies that there was not one to begin with.

like i said, not to pick on you sojourner, but my soon to be converted husband reminded me last nite that catholics often speak in terminology assuming that everyone is as well catechized as they so everyone can fill in the correct blanks. i'm sure thats exactly what you were doing, but some people don't realize that there are blanks to fill in! which was his point so yea, just trying to help