NFP

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 7 2005, 08:58 PM']I
Since it is clear you condemn what the Church has embraced, do you consider yourself a schismatic traditionalist?
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since it is clear you don't have the reading skills of the average 6th grader do you concider yourself an educated man?

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 8 2005, 08:46 AM']If that's an abuse, it should be termed "misusing ovulation and manipulating sex timing"..."manipulating ovulation" is technically not what's going on and is confusing terminology.
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but I didn't say that they where manipulating ovulation, reread what I wrote not what Brother Adam said that I wrote.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 8 2005, 08:47 AM']I guess I'm just too lazy to be so acurate... I'm a "let the chips fall where they may" NFPer, I guess...

and by that I mean we own the book (yet it goes unread) and I'm pretty sure there's a thermometer in this house... somewhere.... 
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then you arn't really following NFP

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 7 2005, 07:59 PM']You can narutally space them by simply not having sex for a year or so, you don't have to [b]manipulate the ovulation [/b]of the women, so that  you can have your cake and eat it too.
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[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 08:50 AM']then you arn't really following NFP
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Yeah, I'd say not.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 8 2005, 08:51 AM']
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I said one was manipulating the ovulation of the women, not manipulating ovulation. Those are not the same thing, although you could interpret it in the way you have you do not necessarly have to and should not. When practicing NFP you tract when ovulation occurs, and then by using that knowledge you regulate when you have sex, that is manipulating ovulation to your end as opposed t the end it is intended for, unless you are contending that ovulation is intended to prevent preganancy--- which of course would be absurd.

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Enough CHILDREN!


Don John knows what NFP is.

Don John is NOT SCHISMATIC.

Don John agrees that NFP is the way to go and be in line with the Magisterium.

Don John does not know how to manipulate ovulation - a typo/miscommunication - hey we are just typing here.

QUIT READING GARBAGE INTO HIS POSTS.

He's trying the best he can to post while he's busy doing other things.

I think we can all relate. And if you can't, go read a book or enjoy something besides the internet.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I like simple explanations better, so I will go with this from the EWTN forums:

[quote]Natural Family Planning is the knowledge of a couple’s fertility. It is a knowledge base about a couple’s ability to conceive a child.

The application of this knowledge in a particular marriage is called responsible parenthood. The couple either decides to try to achieve a pregnancy or to avoid by timing their use of the privileges of marriage according to the knowledge of their mutual fertility. (The man, if healthy, is fertile all the time. The woman, if healthy, is fertile about three or four days a month.)

Responsible parenthood differs from contraception in two ways: 1. There is no alteration of the bodies of either the husband or wife and this is a huge difference. 2. When the couple uses the privileges of marriage, they are not holding back at all or refusing to give everything they are, physically and spiritually. If they are infertile at the time, this is the result of the way God created them. They are giving themselves totally to one another AS THEY ARE AT THAT MOMENT. No one could require more. Further, God never asked couples to use the privileges of marriage at any particular time. That decision is completely theirs. So, in the marital act during an infertile period, husband and wife who are applying the knowledge of their fertility (NFP) responsibly (responsible parenthood) are giving everything they are at that moment to one another.

The intention is also different. The NFP couple realizes that in every marital union there is a chance (perhaps remote) of conceiving a child and they accept this possibility. The contracepting couple (even if only with condoms) has a positive intention against conception.

An example might help: I want some money from a bank. It makes a huge difference whether I go to the bank and draw the money out from a checking account or whether I approach a teller with a gun and "withdraw" $100. Either way, I get the $100, but one act is radically differnt from the other.[/quote]

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 08:59 AM'] unless you are contending that ovulation is intended to prevent preganancy--- which of course would be absurd.
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hehe... of course.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 8 2005, 10:01 AM']Enough CHILDREN!
Don John knows what NFP is.

Don John is NOT SCHISMATIC.

Don John agrees that NFP is the way to go and be in line with the Magisterium.

Don John does not know how to manipulate ovulation - a typo/miscommunication - hey we are just typing here.

QUIT READING GARBAGE INTO HIS POSTS.

He's trying the best he can to post while he's busy doing other things. 

I think we can all relate.  And if you can't, go read a book or enjoy something besides the internet.
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I agree. I just thought that "manipulating ovulation" was not the best terminology. I don't doubt that he's in line with the Magisterium.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 8 2005, 05:50 AM']I do not like NFP.  I have trouble seeing the point, as well as the moral justification for it.  However, the Churh has said it is ok in certain grave circumstances.  To borrow from another hot debate, I think such circumstances are 'rare, if not practically non-existent'. 

To accuse those who disaprove of NFP of being schismatic is quite rediculous and displays a certain deficiency in one's understanding of the term 'schismatic'.
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I'm still going back and forth as to what I think about NFP, but I'm tending to lean towards your view on this, mainly because of what Zach said ...

[quote]Those that are agianst NFP for birth control find that it is still an attempt to manipulate sex so that one gets the pleasure of sex without truely being open to life, it is a matter of intentionallity. The intent of NFP is often to not have children( it can of course be used to have children) and Traditionalist Catholics often oppose it on the grounds that it defies the meaning of sex and Divine Providence. [/quote]

I know not all couples who use NFP use it out of bad intentions, and quite honestly who am I to judge the intents of any couple's hearts? But so often people talk about NFP the same way they talk about birth control, and that bothers me. It just doesn't sit well with me. I like NFP much better than contraception, but when I think about it from a theological standpoint I just have trouble seeing that there's proper justification for it in the way lots of people use it.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote]Don John does not know how to manipulate ovulation - a typo/miscommunication - hey we are just typing here.[/quote]


But I didn't say MANIPULATING OVULATION!!!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:01 AM']He's trying the best he can to post while he's busy doing other things.  [right][snapback]715379[/snapback][/right]
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Aw... I know. I wasn't trying to be critical (okay, maybe a little)... I know Don John's not phishy...

[Carrie]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 8 2005, 11:03 AM']I like NFP much better than contraception, but when I think about it from a theological standpoint I just have trouble seeing that there's proper justification for it in the way lots of people use it.
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It's all about the intention of the couple and whether or not the reason they desire to use NFP is a valid one.

The easiest way for them to figure that out is to speak to a priest.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:10 AM']It's all about the intention of the couple and whether or not the reason they desire to use NFP is a valid one.

The easiest way for them to figure that out is to speak to a priest.
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agreed

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 10:08 AM']But I didn't say MANIPULATING OVULATION!!!
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[quote]you don't have to manipulate the ovulation of the women[/quote]

Sounds like it to me.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Carrie' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:10 AM']It's all about the intention of the couple and whether or not the reason they desire to use NFP is a valid one.

The easiest way for them to figure that out is to speak to a priest.
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Yeah, I'd agree with that statement. It is all about the intention, and I guess the intentions I often hear expressed seem to be more in line with a birth control mentality than with a marriage that's open to life.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:11 AM']Sounds like it to me.
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Alright I have already explained it but I will explain it agian. I said "manipulate the ovulation of the women" And you are indeed manipulating the womens ovulation, That doesn't mean that you are changing the time of ovulation but that you are using the time of that ovulation for your own purposes which are contrary to the intention of ovulation.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 8 2005, 09:16 AM'] It is all about the intention, and I guess the intentions I often hear expressed seem to be more in line with a birth control mentality than with a marriage that's open to life.
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I would agree with that as well.

[Carrie]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 8 2005, 11:10 AM']agreed
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We agree!

What's that? Twice this year?


We're getting along! :