creation and evolution

[heavenseeker]

is it a problem that i believe it both creation and evolution.

[Luthien]

Pope John Paul II actually said somewhere, Im not sure, that it is alright to believe in what science has revealed as long as God is kept in the equation.

There are so many holes in evolution though, that I would have trouble even compromising and believing in both.

[zwergel88]

I think that it is okay to believe in evolution as a set of historical events as long as you believe that God was responsible for it, an guided it. This was the subject of and encyclical but I forget the name, I'm sure someone else knows.

[heavenseeker]

[quote name='zwergel88' date='Sep 18 2005, 05:13 PM']I think that it is okay to believe in evolution as a set of historical events as long as you believe that God was responsible for it, an guided it.  This was the subject of and encyclical but I forget the name, I'm sure someone else knows.
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thats what i mean by believing in both via the most part.

[Brother Adam]

I see no point, scientifically or religiously in believing in evolution, but yes the Church yes you can believe in the theory of evolution.

[heavenseeker]

so there is no problem with it?

[cmotherofpirl]

I certainly have no problem with it. None of us was around when GOD started it all, ands CNN somehow missed the story.
God knows and HE isn't telling.

[jezic]

i think you can believe in both.

Though evolution isn't even close to proven and there are things that just don't work with it. (read macroevolution)

so creative evolutionistic God guided reproduction might be the best term.

[jmjtina]

Darwin's book on Evolution even said that he sees great evidence in a supreme being.

[White Knight]

When you do the research on both and you aleast believe in the events of Creation, you will find that the conclusion of Creation and Evolution co existing together as a mere actually event, you will discover this is not possible at all.


Too many contradictions.

[Brother Adam]

I agree. evolution is a fallacy.

[heavenseeker]

but at the same time there are sure signs of evolution. but then again some would just call them adaptation within the species.

[Brother Adam]

As Jack Dalton says "Exactly". The theory of evolution (origins) and the simple fact that one species can adapt in smalls ways to its environment are two separate issues. A human being doesn't simply get dark skin sitting out in the hot sun all day and become a new species. Even if he grew a 6th finger, he'd still be a human being. There are no 'sure signs' of evolution, however there is a lot of hogwash and BS. Chelsea is one of the best people on this board I know of, of showing that evolution is bunk.

[philothea]

I am pretty tired of arguing about evolution, but it seems obvious to me from physical evidence, that:

(1) The earth is very old.

(2) There has been a succession of life forms living on it, primitive ones long ago, and more sophisticated ones more recently.

(3) Many living things of the past no longer exist, and many modern-day creatures did not exist long ago.

(4) All living things are related to each other, some more closely than others.

I don't know if you want to call that "evolution" but I have never seen any credible method to explain away this evidence. I think a shared origin is indicated.

[Brother Adam]

[quote]I am pretty tired of arguing about evolution, but it seems obvious to me from physical evidence, that:[/quote]

me too.

[quote](1) The earth is very old.  [/quote]

According to what? Science? The same science that not so long ago would have you burned if you didn't confess the earth was flat?
[quote](2) There has been a succession of life forms living on it, primitive ones long ago, and more sophisticated ones more recently.[/quote]

nope.

[quote](3) Many living things of the past no longer exist, and many modern-day creatures did not exist long ago.[/quote]

Right on the creatures going extinct, wrong on the creatures that evolved thing.
[quote](4) All living things are related to each other, some more closely than others.[/quote]

I know this isn't a widely accepted idea, but it could be that it is because God created each and every one of them. Close resemblance does not dictate evolution unless you force it to.

[theculturewarrior]

Humani Generis. That's what I believe. For the rest, I wasn't actually present, not being God and all. You know.

[Brother Adam]

yeah. I know what you mean. Good thing God told Moses what went on and he recorded it for us and the Church told us it was infallible and inerrant.

[theculturewarrior]

Evolution is an allowable opinion in the Church. Read Humani Generis.

[theculturewarrior]

Even the Early Church Fathers speculated that the Creation story was figurative.

[philothea]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:09 PM'][quote](1) The earth is very old.  [/quote]
According to what? Science? The same science that not so long ago would have you burned if you didn't confess the earth was flat?
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The belief that the Earth was flat was not science; it was superstition. Even the Ancient Greeks figured out through observation that the Earth was spherical.

It is kind of ironic to dis science via a medium which is the pinnacle of modern scientific achievement.

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:09 PM'][quote](2) There has been a succession of life forms living on it, primitive ones long ago, and more sophisticated ones more recently.[/quote]
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There may be some other explanation, but the fossil evidence [i]really does look like[/i] the primitive stuff is lower/older, and the more advanced life forms are found higher up.

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:09 PM'][quote](3) Many living things of the past no longer exist, and many modern-day creatures did not exist long ago.[/quote]
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I never said evolved.

All evidence points toward there being eras where only certain plants and creatures existed simultaneously, because only those fossils are found there. A bunch of primitive fossils, say early arthropods (Trilobites, Ammonites, and Belemnites) are found all over the Earth, at a certain age and depth, and no evidence of [i]any[/i] advanced, modern form is found [i]anywhere[/i] with them.

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:09 PM'][quote](4) All living things are related to each other, some more closely than others.[/quote]
I know this isn't a widely accepted idea, but it could be that it is because God created each and every one of them. Close resemblance does not dictate evolution unless you force it to.
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The point of science, which you so easily dismiss, is to find simple, plausible explanations for the myriad, complex patterns observed in nature. Using this principle has produced fabulous results in just about every facet of modern life: chemistry, medicine, electronics, and so on.

It seems nonsensical to me that there should be just this one pattern in nature that we should ignore. We can make sense of the elements and come up with the periodic table, and all of modern chemistry begins. We can notice patterns of disease, and come up with medicines to help people. We notice how light and electricity behave, and learn how to build integrated circuits.

But we shouldn't look at the evidence in the strata of the Earth, and in living cells, and try to figure out a pattern from it?

I'm not saying Darwin was spot on. No one does anymore! But it seems that there is a beautiful, mysterious, wonderful process through which God made life and humanity come to be in this universe, from the formation of stars to the earliest people learning to farm the land. I don't think it's wrong, ignorant, or disrespectful to try to understand that process, in our small human way. And it sure doesn't look like everything just appeared in its final form, [i]poof[/i], all at once.