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Discernment monkey wrench?


Marieteresa

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"There are so many places where one can become a good religious but only one where one could become a saint."

Are you sure about that? If so then if someone chose the wrong vocation (marriage instead of religious life and the other way around or the "wrong" community) than that would mean that the externals determine holiness.

Maybe it would be HARDER to become a saint if someone were in the "wrong" place but God never stops giving us his grace and holiness is about surrendering and responding to his will in the present moment no matter what the cirumcstances are.

Any one have any thoughts on this?

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[quote name='Susan' date='Oct 10 2005, 03:35 PM']"There are so many places where one can become a good religious but only one where one could become a saint."

Are you sure about that? If so then if someone chose the wrong vocation (marriage instead of religious life and the other way around or the "wrong" community) than that would mean that the externals determine holiness.

Maybe it would be HARDER to become a saint if someone were in the "wrong" place but God never stops giving us his grace and holiness is about surrendering and responding to his will in the present moment no matter what the cirumcstances are.

Any one have any thoughts on this?
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I agree Susan. Our vocations, regardless what they are, are call to life and love. I believe our individual calls are what our Father has decided is best for us to grow in holiness, that is growing in relationship and union with Him.

Now, we do have Free Will and we can accept or reject or just plain miss the boat so the speak in our life. However, that doesn't mean God doesn't have shall we say "Plan B". In other words, God will work with us in the situations of our lifes to us to Himself.

If we have any doubts to what lengths or to how much God loves us, then all we have to do is turn our eyes to the Cross.

Blessings,

DM

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That was just my humble opinion...and what I truely believe. I think about the life of Holy Mother Saint Teresa of Avila and what would have happened if she would have choosen to reject Gods call to become a bride of Christ. But decided to marry and have children instead...(there is nothing wrong with a vocation to marriage) But in her own words she felt like if she would have choosen to reject God's call she would have lost her soul. Anyway just taking a look at the lives of the saints i wonder would they become saints if the would have choosen another path.

Your right though God wants us to grow in holiness and to love Him with our whole heart. But I still believe that anywhere one can be a good religious but only one place can one become a saint.

In JMJ

MC IMaGiNaZUN thanks for introducing me to Blessed Maria Terese Fasce

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[quote name='Susan' date='Oct 10 2005, 01:35 PM']"There are so many places where one can become a good religious but only one where one could become a saint."

Are you sure about that? If so then if someone chose the wrong vocation (marriage instead of religious life and the other way around or the "wrong" community) than that would mean that the externals determine holiness.

Maybe it would be HARDER to become a saint if someone were in the "wrong" place but God never stops giving us his grace and holiness is about surrendering and responding to his will in the present moment no matter what the cirumcstances are.

Any one have any thoughts on this?
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Let me clarify myself. You did bring up a good point Susan. And you probably have better advice than i do.

What i do want to point out is this. God can, and often does bring good out of bad. And i don't see what can limit God, when we bumble and make mistakes. And as far as i know, we are never perfect enough to make the absolute best decisions.

God knows the heart, and if we mess up, I just have faith that God can bring good from it all...

St. Rita of Cascia wanted with all her heart to be wed to Our Lord. She hung out with the nuns at the Magdellena convent in Cascia. And she had a fervent prayer life, and was very intimate with Jesus. But when her parents refused to let her join the convent, she was forced to marry. God had used that marriage to bring about the conversion of her husband. But upon widowhood, God restored that original dream of hers to be completely his.

But i am too selfish, this conversation is not about me...

Loosing the soul, as quoted by St. Theresa is a good point. That is how i feel about my vocation. I do believe, that if i had just decided to get married, and have kids, God could have blessed me. Indeed, God is very powerful and benevolent. But i know deep down in my heart, that i will not be complete until i find that special place that God has for me. And i do believe that i have found that place.

I just do not believe that God will force us into a position without giving us options. Or coax us into a decision through fear and force. I believe that God inspires in us love and generosity, then we may have the proper disposition to give of ourselves more to him.

SHALOM

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[quote name='Susan' date='Oct 10 2005, 02:35 PM']"There are so many places where one can become a good religious but only one where one could become a saint."

Are you sure about that? If so then if someone chose the wrong vocation (marriage instead of religious life and the other way around or the "wrong" community) than that would mean that the externals determine holiness.

Maybe it would be HARDER to become a saint if someone were in the "wrong" place but God never stops giving us his grace and holiness is about surrendering and responding to his will in the present moment no matter what the cirumcstances are.

Any one have any thoughts on this?
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I think that God has a special plan for us in our lives. God's ways are so much higher than we can understand, so we pray and trust that God is leading us to His Holy Will (and thus sainthood) every day if we let Him.

To say that there is "only one where one could become a saint", well, if we said that God has only one convent in the world where I could become a saint, I'd be scared to death that I'd try to enter the wrong place. God seems to have His way of leading us without us having to stress it so much. His Will seems to (especially if we are people of prayer) show up in front of us....if that makes any sense.

If I would've chosen to get married instead of become a Sister, I think I would've regretted it the rest of my life. I pictured myself sitting at church with my husband and children realizing that I chose the wrong vocation and that I should've followed God's Will. I pictured myself there not really happy because I didn't follow the road that God had invited me to.

Also, while I'm teaching or leading Youth Groups, etc., I also think about how these young people never would've met me (if I would have gotten married). I think about how they never would have heard the Gospel from me, they never would have had my influence in their lives.

At the same time, I believe that if I would've gotten married instead of become a Sister (I'm in Final Vows now), that God would have continued inviting me to be holy through that vocation. But I imagine that there would have been a pain in my heart ...an extra suffering...knowing that I didn't follow God's Will.

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Sometimes God leads us on detours. We have a Sister that went to Carmel to live as a cloistered Sister. She gave everything away. She said good-bye to her friends forever. After living there a year and a half, she realized that God was not calling her to the cloister after all. However, she also knew that the time there was not wasted. She learned so much about prayer, solitude, and sacrifice.

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Yes it is true that God sometimes gives us detours in life and I know that many have stated that if you choose to go your own way and ignore God's will that eventually one may lead back to the path that one was originally suppose to go. I think this may or may not be true...In the words of Mother Agnes it is possible for one to lose their vocation. I know that yes one can go off and have a family yet still feel the call to religious life...But can one really return back to the original path? I sometimes think it may not be possible because of different age limits in many religious orders. I often think of our path here on earth as a road that often changes with each decision we make...if we decide to follow God or to follow our own will the road may change. I kinda see it as being like a network of wires each wire connected to another. With each decision we progress through the network. (I am so bad at explaining stuff)

Yes this decision will affect the rest of ones life but i feel as though I need to make a decision. After almost six years of discerning I need to come to closure this year and either pursue my vocation or my career.
I don't want to be a life long member of the perpetual discerners club. Also I am beginning to see that the older one gets the more commitments and responsiblities one is suppose to take on. Not to say that commitments and responsiblities are bad but with the more one takes on the harder it is for one to let go.

In Jesus, Our Blessed Mother and St. Teresa

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[quote name='Marieteresa' date='Oct 11 2005, 06:27 PM'] After almost six years of discerning I need to come to closure this year and either pursue my vocation or my career.
I don't want to be a life long member of the perpetual discerners club. 

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Okay, we'll be praying for you!!! :topsy:

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Earlier in this thread someone was referring to how we have free will and how God calls us and so forth..... This is one of my favorite Scriptures:

[b]Psalm 37:4

"Take delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart."[/b]

I always dreamed of a nice, handsome religious Catholic man to marry. I found Him! (Jesus)

The fear of a vocation (as a younger person) became the delight of my heart! I didn't know that Jesus was preparing me for Himself as my Spouse! :blush:

Our God is a God of surprises!!!

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[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' date='Oct 12 2005, 03:27 PM']Arg...  my family keeps throwing in a few wrenches too...  man o man...  they never did say things would be easy...
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If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about "wrenches".

God works in mysterious ways. If the wrenches are in the way, He must have a reason for them. If God wants doors to open, they will open at the right time and place.

[b]Jesus, I Trust in You![/b] :saint:

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[quote name='srmarymichael' date='Oct 13 2005, 01:22 PM']If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about "wrenches". 

God works in mysterious ways.  If the wrenches are in the way, He must have a reason for them.  If God wants doors to open, they will open at the right time and place.

[b]Jesus, I Trust in You![/b]  :saint:
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I'd try not to worry too much about it, but it is hard when it is something that directly affects my finacial situation... I really don't want any of this stuff, but it is being piled on! I have things like trusts in my name, life insurance that was just started, along with an array of other things... it just is not fun...

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[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' date='Oct 13 2005, 05:34 PM']I'd try not to worry too much about it, but it is hard when it is something that directly affects my finacial situation...  I really don't want any of this stuff, but it is being piled on!  I have things like trusts in my name, life insurance that was just started, along with an array of other things...  it just is not fun...
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Hmmm.... The Trusts can either be given away, or like me, after I stayed in the convent for a few years, and I knew that I was staying in this particular convent for sure, I gave it to the convent.

Life insurance -- just let it run out. Convents don't usually have life insurance. Don't let other people try to keep you home with junk like this....not if God is calling you elsewhere. ;)

[b]Jesus, I Trust in You! [/b]
(say this about a thousand times a day when doubts are creeping in)

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[quote name='srmarymichael' date='Oct 14 2005, 09:49 AM']Hmmm....  The Trusts can either be given away, or like me, after I stayed in the convent for a few years, and I knew that I was staying in this particular convent for sure, I gave it to the convent.

Life insurance -- just let it run out.  Convents don't usually have life insurance.  Don't let other people try to keep you home with junk like this....not if God is calling you elsewhere.  ;)

[b]Jesus, I Trust in You!  [/b]
(say this about a thousand times a day when doubts are creeping in)
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What about life and health insurance for the individual? I mean, I've always have found myself in that era (Like Theresa of Avila, or Bernadette of Lourdes) To where I wouldnt care at all if I had it, I much rather die in the convent then be at a hospital or etc..

By the way do you call your superior Mother? :blink: :lol: :lol_roll: :sweat:

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[quote name='AlterDominicus' date='Oct 14 2005, 09:49 PM']What about life and health insurance for the individual? I mean, I've always have found myself in that era (Like Theresa of Avila, or Bernadette of Lourdes) To where I wouldnt care at all if I had it, I much rather die in the convent then be at a hospital or etc..

By the way do you call your superior Mother?  :blink:  :lol:  :lol_roll:  :sweat:
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I'm pretty sure most Communities do not have life insurance. You'd have to ask other Sisters about that one....

Health insurance -- some have it and some don't. I believe that many have it because of the huge health care costs. If someone had surgery or something big, it would cost thousands of dollars. (Insurance isn't cheap either.)

When you belong to a Community, the Community is responsible for everything that has to do with you that costs money. So this is really not a worry for you. They (the superiors) have to figure out how to pay the bills (especially when you're in vows).

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