Cow of Shame Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 [quote name='Benedicite' date='Oct 11 2005, 12:25 AM'] and i'm getting baptised again because when i was baptised in the catholic church it wasnt my decision and this time i feel it is, and i want to make that public commitment." [right][snapback]753679[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That's what 'confirmation' is for...to CONFIRM your baptism.
musturde Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 [quote name='Benedicite' date='Oct 10 2005, 04:27 AM']Thanks guys, so that settles one question - I'm not going. Second question....so we've made the assumption that she's clueless about what baptism is, and everything. But to give her the benefit of the doubt (and to buy myself more time to write an explanation) I've asked her "when, where and WHY are you getting baptised again?" Brother Adam - you suggested starting from scratch, which I'm expecting will probably be necessary. I don't know all that much myself.... can you please help? [right][snapback]752303[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Your NOT going? Your not encouraging her beliefe by going and by not showing up, your not supporting her. It's much easier to get your friend to listen to what you have to say about your beliefs if you respect hers. Try to go to it just to show your support of her. Now about you getting rebaptized: Getting baptized again has really no meaning. Its not sacramental if you already recieved it. As a Catholic, it'd just be a sign to the protestant community that you want God. The idea of confirmation in the latin rite at a later age (because this is not true in all rites) is to better recieve the gifts of the spirit by choice. Geting two baptisms is kind of useless, but I don't think it's a sin. I believe you can do it as long as you believe that there's no reason to actually do it, which would go against the whole idea of doing it to begin with. Then to think of it that way, you'd have to think about what you believe is more legitimate, a priest baptizing you or anybody baptizing you. Of course they both work and in extreme conditions a lay person could baptize you. However, I believe that one done by a priest is more valid. Thats my input. Pax
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 [quote name='musturde' date='Oct 11 2005, 07:05 PM']Your NOT going? Your not encouraging her beliefe by going and by not showing up, your not supporting her. It's much easier to get your friend to listen to what you have to say about your beliefs if you respect hers. Try to go to it just to show your support of her. [right][snapback]754421[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I understand what you're trying to say, but I honestly think that going would do more harm than good. He can respectfully decline to attend, and then state his reasons why. To say he disapproves and then to show up is a contradiction... why celebrate something you don't believe in?
Benedicite Posted October 12, 2005 Author Posted October 12, 2005 Well... I have a week to work on her before her baptism hehe~ Darn time is scarce! Holy Spirit, please cast the light of Your truth on Laura.... Brother Adam: I've looked through your outline re: baptism and learnt quite a lot myself! So that explains what Baptism is about, and why it is necessary - but how do I then convince her that there is no point in getting baptised again? Musturde: I don't think the problem is one of who baptised her, her justification for this 'baptism' is because she didn't 'choose' to be baptised the first time round. Fides: I'm a girl
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 [quote name='Benedicite' date='Oct 12 2005, 01:04 AM']Fides: I'm a girl [right][snapback]754969[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm so sorry! I hate it when people do that to me! one thing I always bring up when discussing baptism is that it's not about our feelings. what if your friend gets older and suddenly feels for some reason this baptism wasn't right-- i.e., she didn't know enough because now she's changed churches again or has gotten a theology degree or something? will she then be baptized a third time under the guise of "public committment"? Ephesians tells us that there is one baptism-- without clarifying that we must be adults and old enough to understand (and honestly, who truly understands except God?). And Acts tells us to "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins"--NOT for any ceramonial public committment. I'm not downplaying committment, it just doesn't seem that committment is truly what baptism is about.
Brother Adam Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 [quote name='Benedicite' date='Oct 12 2005, 01:04 AM']Well... I have a week to work on her before her baptism hehe~ Darn time is scarce! Holy Spirit, please cast the light of Your truth on Laura.... Brother Adam: I've looked through your outline re: baptism and learnt quite a lot myself! So that explains what Baptism is about, and why it is necessary - but how do I then convince her that there is no point in getting baptised again? Musturde: I don't think the problem is one of who baptised her, her justification for this 'baptism' is because she didn't 'choose' to be baptised the first time round. Fides: I'm a girl [right][snapback]754969[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, if you talk to her about this, and go through both of those outlines, hopefully it will be apparent why she should not get baptized again, she has been baptized once for the forgiveness of sins and a rebaptism is the rejection of the work God has done in her life, so it is indeed a rejection of God Himself. I have midterms today and tomorrow, but I will try to write more on Friday on some of the common 'catch phrases' you will run into like "But in the Bible they always "believed" and THEN "were baptized" so "belief" must come first." I hear those all the time. Maybe someone like Fides can help answer before then, else I will on Friday. Fides is one smart cookie.
Benedicite Posted October 13, 2005 Author Posted October 13, 2005 (edited) [quote] I'm so sorry! I hate it when people do that to me! :blush one thing I always bring up when discussing baptism is that it's not about our feelings. what if your friend gets older and suddenly feels for some reason this baptism wasn't right-- i.e., she didn't know enough because now she's changed churches again or has gotten a theology degree or something? will she then be baptized a third time under the guise of "public committment"? Ephesians tells us that there is one baptism-- without clarifying that we must be adults and old enough to understand (and honestly, who truly understands except God?). And Acts tells us to "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins"--NOT for any ceramonial public committment. I'm not downplaying committment, it just doesn't seem that committment is truly what baptism is about.[/quote] Hehe don't worry, you're not the only one that's ever thought I was a guy That is so true, *grumbles* prottys and their feelings and 'opinions' and 'own interpretations' That's a good point - perhaps I should ask her that question! (about getting baptised a third time) Brother Adam: Thanks! Same here, I've got a huge assignment to finish by tomorrow....... so I might flick her the outlines to start with, and hopefully more detail in the weekend Edited October 13, 2005 by Benedicite
Fides_et_Ratio Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Oct 12 2005, 09:24 AM']Maybe someone like Fides can help answer before then, else I will on Friday. Fides is one smart cookie. [right][snapback]755137[/snapback][/right] [/quote] who me? Thanks, Bro. Adam... I'm glad you are more confident in my knowledge than I am!
Brother Adam Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 [quote name='Benedicite' date='Oct 13 2005, 12:32 AM']Hehe don't worry, you're not the only one that's ever thought I was a guy That is so true, *grumbles* prottys and their feelings and 'opinions' and 'own interpretations' That's a good point - perhaps I should ask her that question! (about getting baptised a third time) Brother Adam: Thanks! Same here, I've got a huge assignment to finish by tomorrow....... so I might flick her the outlines to start with, and hopefully more detail in the weekend [right][snapback]756623[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Please don't 'flick her the outlines'. Proclaiming the mystery of Christ deserves so much more than a 'flick'. If you are going to help her deepen her spiritual life and draw into an intimacy with Christ, and not to mention stay home in the Church, then you need to personally guide her through these things. People aren't moved by 'outlines' they are moved by witnesses to the truth. "Men listen to witnesses more than they listen to teachers, and if they listen to a teacher it is because he is a witness" - EN 41
Benedicite Posted October 14, 2005 Author Posted October 14, 2005 Good thing I haven't done it yet then.... Should I include an explanation with each point in the outline?
Benedicite Posted October 22, 2005 Author Posted October 22, 2005 Warning: rant ahead Gargh~ How many times do I have to explain that baptism is about the forgivness of sins, not just a public witness!?! Frustrating how you can lay it all out, plain and simple, scripture to support, and then have the person turn around and say "I'm just doing this to acknowledge Jesus as my personal Lord and Saviour." And then to be told to [i]stop trying to prove them wrong, let her have her spiritual high and just be here when she's ready to look for answers[/i] What if she never comes back? It is entirely possible to surf from one spiritual high onto another. [i]If it draws her closer to God, so be it? We believe in the same God anyway?[/i]
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