Abstinence-only sex ed defies common sense

[Paladin D]

[url="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9504871/"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9504871/[/url]

It's [b]risky[/b] to have sex outside of marriage, so why encourage it? Contraception does not work, deal with it morons.

Polls aren't always accurate, considering they only take a small group of people (let's say, 600-1200) out of 294 million Americans, big difference. If you took a handful of people from Los Angeles, and a group from a rural community, your results would probally be drastically different. Before President Bush won the 2004 elections, majority of the polls showed that more people prefered John Kerry, I guess the election proved otherwise.

Edited October 14, 2005 by Paladin D

[Lil Red]

[b]b[/b]attered [b]s[/b]hrimp

[zunshynn]

phooey

[avemaria40]

BS, sounds like a lot of ppl are getting paid by prophylatic and birth control pill companies

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[QUOTE]There may be a sillier strategy for dealing with sex among teens than promoting the choice of "abstinence-only-until-marriage," but I am not quite sure what it is.[/QUOTE]

I know what it is: teaching about contraception.

[QUOTE]Not only is such an approach contradicted by everything that medicine and science know about teens and sex, but it flies directly in the face of everything all ordinary Americans know about teens and sex.[/QUOTE]

No...it flies in the face of what medicine and science [i]expect[/i] from teenagers, based on their own ideals they have shoved down their throats for decades. Teenagers are far more chaste when not being defined as sex-fiends and figuring, "eh, what the heck...they think I am, so I guess I should be."

[QUOTE]In addition, studies show sexually transmitted diseases are spreading at an alarming rate among young people.[/QUOTE]

However, by stark contrast, the only group of young people not contracting such diseases are those who practice abstinence...but no...it's a silly program.

[QUOTE]A recent study found that teens who took pledges of virginity as part of abstinence-only sex ed classes ultimately had STD rates similar to other young people and were less likely to use contraception or other forms of protection when they did become sexually active.[/QUOTE]

It's similar to the situation with catechesis in this country...everyone looks for initial conversion and promises, but no one does the follow-up work to help them live it out.

[QUOTE]In short, the idea that teens will remain celibate until they marry — and that they don't need information about sex — says much more about the values and fantasies of the people who are promoting these policies than it does about teens.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but I know about sex. Even the most sheltered devout Catholic homeschooled kids know about sex...and I bet they know more than the others. Why? Because statistically, they actually see sex. No, not intercourse...but they are raised their whole lives seeing good and loving examples between men and women, and of course they learn the biology, duh...but in a way that's respectful and correct. When you define sex education and teaching students about condoms, then of course you're going to say that abstinence programs don't teach about sex...but sex education [b]isn't[/b] about condoms, is it?

[QUOTE]There can be no discussion of contraception except with reference to marriage, no discussion of abortion, and nothing said about homosexuality except with reference to preventing sexually transmitted diseases.[/QUOTE]

Maybe because none of those things have anything to do with teaching about real sex as we can know it is with certainty. Teach the basics...teach the biology...everyone agrees on teaching that. As for the moral applications, teach the traditions of our culture...the traditions that have made us prosper for thousands of years--no contraception, no abortion...those things are just dumb...why make yourself infertile? Does it take a genius to tell that that's a bad thing?

[QUOTE]And in Texas, at least since the days when George W. Bush was governor, sex ed classes almost exclusively espouse abstinence-only messages.[/QUOTE]

Gee, an attack on the president...didn't see that one coming...

[QUOTE]In contrast, Oregon, California and New Jersey mandate that if a school does teach about sex it must provide medically accurate information, and age-appropriate and respectful discussion of the diversity of relationships, including those involving people with disabilities.[/QUOTE]

I have no problem with this...and what do the people with disabilities have to do with it? When did the abstinence-only people ever say that people with artificial legs couldn't have sex?

The problem lies in this: contraception and abortion work [b]AGAINST[/b] medicine...teaching about them doesn't help. They violate the health of those involved...our bodies work the way they do for a reason, we don't have to manipulate those things...if we do, it's what's called "unhealthy."

[QUOTE]I am completely against abstinence-only sex ed programs for three reasons: there is no evidence at all that they work; common sense says they have no chance of working; and it is not clear that ethically they send the right message to young people.[/QUOTE]

I am completely against contraceptive sex ed programs for three reasons: there is evidence that they [b]fail miserably[/b]; common sense says they [b]fail miserably[/b]; and it is clear that ethically they [b]do[/b] send the [i][b]wrong[/b][/i] message to young people.

[QUOTE]To make matters worse, the administration and Congress have played favorites with your tax money, with abstinence-only money going disproportionately to Arizona, Florida, Georgia and Texas.[/QUOTE]

YAY! Money is going to the states that want to support abstinence-only education! :

[QUOTE]In Kansas, the evaluators stated that "no changes [were] noted in participants' actual or intended behavior." Evaluators of the Texas program found the same thing — no change in the number of students pledging to remain celibate until marriage. In fact, more students reported having had sex after taking an abstinence-only sex ed course then they did beforehand.[/QUOTE]

It took decades to ruin this culture sexually and it will take decades to gain it back. Patience! You destroyed it in the first place...you have no right to demand things immediately! Stupid culture of death!

[QUOTE]So what message is sent to teens when abstinence-only-until-marriage is portrayed as the only acceptable way to deal with sex?

When I went to child-parent meetings at my son’s high school, parents of girls were frantic that the school reinforce the message that sexual intercourse was a bad choice. Parents of boys always seemed to me to be supportive but not nearly as frantic that this message be taught.

However, parents' attitudes seemed to change when these same kids went away to college or went off to get a job. A lot of these very same parents stopped preaching that sex before marriage was wrong. A fair number of them would whisper that sex before marriage might be a good idea, especially if the sex was with someone their son or daughter was thinking about marrying. Many of these parents had lived with someone before marrying and all of them who had done so had sex before marrying.[/QUOTE]

Yeah...that's because the parents didn't really agree with the program...they just thought high school was too young for premarital sex, not that premarital sex was a bad thing. As such, they never belonged to the abstinence crowd and guess what...that means there's been no hypocrisy! :

[QUOTE]The message that sex must wait until marriage is not the right message to send to a young person. The people sending the message almost never lived up to it in their own lives and nothing turns a kid off like hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]

In philosophy, we call this the Tu Quoque Fallacy.

[QUOTE]Furthermore, most kids themselves just don’t believe it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, because that makes it wrong...

[QUOTE]And lastly, regardless of what someone's age is, it makes more sense to talk about maturity, love and mutual respect than to send an absolute message that sex is unacceptable outside marriage — a message that gets nullified the day a person graduates from high school.[/QUOTE]

And it makes better sense to include all of these things.

[QUOTE]Science and common sense, not wishful thinking and hypocrisy, should guide what we teach kids about sex.[/QUOTE]

Wishful thinking? Let's talk about wishful thinking. The condom fails 10% of the time, at least. That's what the companies admit to.

Now, if you give students condoms, they are bound to have sex MORE frequently, such that the rate of sexual encounters goes up. Eventually, that rate will fill in the 10% failure rate and you will end up with MORE STDs, not fewer.

Now who's doing the wishful thinking?

Besides...these people only look at results...I mean...you've got to be kidding me. If something in intrinsically wrong, but brings about a good (which it doesn't, anyway), then it's still intrinsically wrong!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Darn, the quote feature is broken again...

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Oct 14 2005, 05:04 PM']Darn, the quote feature is broken again...
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It breaks?

[Socrates]

This is simply a liberal political opinion piece masquerading as a medical column. The guy wants contraceptives promoted in schools.

[Nathan]

I fail to see the silliness in teaching young people to be abstinent until marriage. I really do.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Oct 14 2005, 06:04 PM']Darn, the quote feature is broken again...
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No, there's just a limit. I found out by trial and error that it only allows you so many quotes per post, and obviously you were over the limit.

[crusader1234]

I don't think anybody really listens in sex-ed class. These days, I'm pretty sure everyone from Kindergarten up knows how it works, everyone from grade three up knows what a condom is and how to use it, etc. Sex ed doesn't really teach anyone anything. Abstinence only classes in school are as stupid as pro-condom classes. Its the parents job to give their kids a proper view of sex, not something a person can learn in a few health classes before moving on to the less squirmy topic of what the wacky tabacky leads to.

[Cow of Shame]

when they show a class of guys a "How to" movie for women on breast exams, you can bet the farm that everyone is paying attention....

[photosynthesis]

throughout my education in public schools, there was always sed ed... but only until high school did they ever TALK about marriage. sex ed needs to be taught in the context of marriage and family, so that students are given a framework for how sex is supposed to happen. The 1st problem about sex ed is that they seperate the sexual act from the marital union, and this leads to permissiveness towards all sorts of things, including homosexuality.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 14 2005, 10:44 PM']throughout my education in public schools, there was always sed ed...  but only until high school did they ever TALK about marriage.  sex ed needs to be taught in the context of marriage and family, so that students are given a framework for how sex is supposed to happen.  The 1st problem about sex ed is that they seperate the sexual act from the marital union, and this leads to permissiveness towards all sorts of things, including homosexuality.
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Wow. That seems sort of insightful.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 15 2005, 12:44 AM']throughout my education in public schools, there was always sed ed...  but only until high school did they ever TALK about marriage.  sex ed needs to be taught in the context of marriage and family, so that students are given a framework for how sex is supposed to happen.  The 1st problem about sex ed is that they seperate the sexual act from the marital union, and this leads to permissiveness towards all sorts of things, including homosexuality.
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Yes...and then when you get to high school and they say, "wait until marriage," no one understands why because they haven't been taught that marriage is the only proper context.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

When I was in Germany for W.Y.D. this past summer, on the U-Bahn Station, there was this poster that said this...

"Abstinence doesn't work....Good Catholics use condoms."

It was something like that. It was all over.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Oct 15 2005, 12:33 PM']When I was in Germany for W.Y.D. this past summer, on the U-Bahn Station, there was this poster that said this...

"Abstinence doesn't work....Good Catholics use condoms."

It was something like that. It was all over.


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Yeah, a bunch of Planned Parenthood types did that...there was an article posted here about it...

A whole bunch of WYD kids tore them down (which is illegal in Germany) or tore out cross-shaped sections from them.

[Jedi_StClaire]

what do you expect from a country that seems to LOVE planned parenthood, overturns a ban on a gruesome abortion procedure because "there's no health exception! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" and sells sex to teenagers?

If teens abstain from sex until marriage - Banned Parenthood loses money on abortions. If they chose to have ONE lifetime partner that is of the OPPOSITE sex, Banned Parenthood loses money again...........


Teens need to be taught self control, self respect and that if a guy says "I'll leave you if we don't have sex" then he obviously does NOT respect you.

Also, I read that the condoms that Banned Parenthood give out purposely fail ............... which means more pregnancies if the PILL fails ..................... which means more moohlah for Banned Parenthood especially when they get teens thinking they're just removing a "blood clot" or "a little piece of tissue" or "its as simple as having your tonsils out"

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Jedi_StClaire' date='Oct 15 2005, 01:46 PM']what do you expect from a country that seems to LOVE planned parenthood, overturns a ban on a gruesome abortion procedure because "there's no health exception! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"  and sells sex to teenagers?

If teens abstain from sex until marriage - Banned Parenthood loses money on abortions.  If they chose to have ONE lifetime partner that is of the OPPOSITE sex, Banned Parenthood loses money again...........
Teens need to be taught self control, self respect and that if a guy says "I'll leave you if we don't have sex" then he obviously does NOT respect you.

Also, I read that the condoms that Banned Parenthood give out purposely fail ............... which means more pregnancies if the PILL fails .....................  which means more moohlah for Banned Parenthood especially when they get teens thinking they're just removing a "blood clot" or "a little piece of tissue" or "its as simple as having your tonsils out"
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You're exactly right, Planned Parenthood is a [b]business[/b]; they need to promote premartial "safe sex" so if a slip-up happens, they can cash in on it by performing an abortion.

[photosynthesis]

abstinence works for me!